Hi Laurens,

So, how did you do your deployment, and which product did you choose and why? :)

Thank you for your time!

Andre

--- Laurens Vets <laurens (at) daemon (dot) be [email concealed]> schrieb am Mi, 29.7.2009:

> Von: Laurens Vets <laurens (at) daemon (dot) be [email concealed]>
> Betreff: Re: IPS - Cisco vs. McAfee vs. Tippingpoint
> An: focus-ids (at) securityfocus (dot) com [email concealed]
> CC: "Hurgel Bumpf" <l0rd_lunatic (at) yahoo (dot) com [email concealed]>
> Datum: Mittwoch, 29. Juli 2009, 11:55
> Hey Andre,
>
> > i need to protect a "realtime" website with an inline
> IPS from (D)DOS attacks.
>
> That's going to be though with an IPS...
>
> > I had some bad experience with Tippingpoint UnityOne
> 2400 field test. The device dropped to much sessions until
> all connectivity was lost. After that no investigation was
> not possible as TP logs all attack information with IP
> address 0.0.0.0
> > The vendor excused this with the layered technology
> and passing the IP address from the hardware to the logger
> would lead to delayed packages)
> >
> > This is unacceptable.
> >
> > i'm now looking forward to test a Cisco IPS 4270-20
> and a McAfee Network Security 4050 appliance.
> > Who has a good/bad experience with that devices? Is it
> true that all devices don't log ip adresses?
>
> If you want to block a DDOS with an IPS, good luck with
> that :) Normally, most devices do log source and destination
> addresses. However, depending on the alert generated by the
> IPS, you still might see 0.0.0.0 as source for instance.
> This means that the alert triggered with a lot of different
> source addresses.
>
> > My dream appliance would be able to run like in a 7
> day learning mode which counts max new sessions per second,
> max sessions per client aso. After this 7 days it creates a
> filter with +x% of the learned values and sets these limits
> active.
>
> I don't think any of the systems mentioned above can
> actually do this. I'll talk in general terms as I only have
> experience with Cisco (and other IPSses you didn't
> mention).
>
> IPSes inspect traffic for defined patterns in that traffic.
> They will generally see that there's a lot of traffic when
> there's a (D)DOS (and can report some of it. E.g it will
> notice a SYN flood for instance), but if the traffic is
> legitimate (e.g. 'normal' HTTP requests to http://company.com, but coming from a lot of different
> sources) it won't "see" anything bad and can't take action
> on this traffic.
> I don't think a Cisco IPS can do statistical analysis of
> the traffic (E.g. "alert when this type of traffic has an
> 80% increase over the last 2 hours").
>
> If an IPS sees too much packets to process (legitimate or
> not), it will either drop them or pass them unanalyzed.
>
> > A big problem is that i have to install it into the
> productive system to get the real values. I dont have any
> fixed values regarding the new sessions per second and i
> cant just guess and set values and render the system
> offline.
>
> Most inline IPSes can be put inline without actually
> blocking anything, usually called learning mode or
> monitoring mode.
>
> Hope this helps a bit.
>
> -Laurens
>

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