Hackers sued for tinkering with Xbox games

Hackers sued for tinkering with Xbox games
Kevin Poulsen, SecurityFocus 2005-02-09

In the first case of its kind, a California video game maker is suing an entire community of software tinkerers for reverse engineering and modifying Xbox games that they legally purchased.

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Theory of moral rights 2005-02-10
Doug Sibley (15 replies)

I'm not so sure the claim should fail. The authors of the game have moral rights in the work they have created. Moral rights give an author veto over modifications which would "object to derogatory treatment of the work or film which amounts to a distortion or mutilation or is otherwise prejudicial ...

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Theory of moral rights 2005-02-10
Anonymous (2 replies)

What??

The examples you have just given bear no resemblance to this case in any way!! They are not the same thing!

These modifications have been forced onto no-one. You have to choose to download and install the patches etc. that these modifiers have created, they have not forced anyone to do ...

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Theory of moral rights 2005-02-10
Anonymous

Not to mention the fact that the game itself and creators hold no moral integrity whatsoever. The fact that they even mass produced this game shows that perfectly clear.

They made a game where scantly clad girls in bikinis run around the beach. That's it. That was the entire selling point of the ...

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Theory of moral rights 2005-02-10
Anonymous

It's more like having a picture of King George (bush) on your living room wall with mustache marked on it. He probably wants to take you to court, but he really can't (yet)....

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Theory of moral rights 2005-02-10
Mark A. (1 replies)

I've been known add moustaches and eyeglasses to political figure's images in my Sunday paper. I hope they don't find out and sue me.......

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Theory of moral rights 2005-02-11
crippled ninja

just to inform you.. 1% of the skins were nude.. and they werent the main skinning focus....

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Theory of moral rights 2005-02-10
Anonymous

I have the moral right to not buy a Tecmo game ever again....

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moral rights, not in the USA 2005-02-11
Anonymous

Sorry Bub,

there are no moral rights per se

in the US.

In fact, where some works of copyright (music) are concerned, there is even a COMPULSORY copyright licensing system.

Reverse engineering is explicitly allowed by the DMCA,

and distributing your own material, however unseemly, is the a...

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Theory of moral rights 2005-02-11
Anonymous

The lawsuit is utterly absurd. If they were pirating the games the lawsuit is understandable. But they aren't doing that, simply modifying the game and giving instructions should be legal. Even the skins they are swapping aren't stolen. Pretty soon I won't be able to read my books in the bathroom be...

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Theory of moral rights 2005-02-11
Clint

Actually this does not exist at all. In fact, just the opposite is true. The courts have decided that compaines and viewers can alter the content of movies to remove "objectionable" content. The creators of the movies have no say whatsoever in how the movie is viewed. The same should apply to video ...

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Theory of moral rights 2005-02-11
Anonymous

Well, if I bought a pair of Levi's and decided to cut them to shorts, ... would Levi's take me to a court for having modified MY pair of levi's?

Notice that it's different if I SOLD cut Levi's, in this case there's people offering scissors for free, not cut trousers!...

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Theory of moral rights 2005-02-11
Silverfish

Are you kidding me?

It States Right in that Web Page if you know how to Read that "There are also several situations in which these rights do not apply:

Computer programs". Please correct me if i am wrong but an XBOX (Created by Microsoft) is a computer. Hence that would make any media that is p...

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Moral Rights indeed. 2005-02-11
Anonymous

"Authors use this right to force book publishers to reprint books with serious errors; sculptors use this right to prevent interference with their art (there was a case in Toronto where a sculpture of geese had Christmas ribbons put around their necks and the creator of the art went to court to get ...

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Theory of moral rights 2005-02-11
Anonymous

Ok, you say that tecmo is in the right because an author can sue a publisher for mistakes? That's stupid, that's an issue between creator and production, the customer isn't involved in that situation! The author can't sue me because I post on the internet "the ending would be better like this: ......

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Theory of moral rights 2005-02-12
GXCori

While I completely understand Doug's opinion I have to disagree. Saying that the author should have rights to keep someone from doing something to a game character and sharing it with his or her friends is like J-lo saying look at my videos guys but don't get turned on by it or I'll sue.

If these ...

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Theory of moral rights 2005-02-12
Anonymous

Not to mention you list a .gov.uk site which oddly enough looks like a United Kingdom site. These charges are being pressed in the US. UK law does not apply because neither the company, nor the defendant are in the UK....

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Theory of moral rights 2005-02-15
Anonymous (2 replies)

You are full of it. All of the cases you site are cases of resale and distribution. If I make nude volleyballers and do several different things, sell the new program, distribute the hack for sale, display the hacked program for sale, use it to perform illegal activities, etc it might be illegal. ...

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Reality of moral rights 2005-02-16
Anonymous

The USA is weird, and Americans should be pissed off. Things authored outside the USA and brought in get international treaty rights, which are often more than American creator would get.

Dunno if USA has "moral rights". But if I create something here in Canada, then in the USA it has moral rig...

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Re: Theory of moral rights 2006-03-09
Doug Sibley

After reading all the responses I do think there is a difference between the cases -- in this case the changed versions are not distributed or published -- people have to make the changes.

I also don't think that US IP law has the concept of moral rights (but that doesn't mean that the lawsuit co...

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Re: Theory of moral rights 2006-03-22
Anonymous

make it simple.... don't buy games from the japanese company dedicated to electronic games which is sueing these guys (I do not want to commit moral offense to no one), get some exciting, thrilling games that fulfill your wishes because nowadays everybody is so touchy regarding the moral and etc. et...

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Re: B. S. 2009-06-15
Anonymous

I can take a piece of art, a book, etc, and break it, destroy it, etc. I can buy a car, modify it, r.e. the software, add ipod interface, ground effects and tv, its my prerogative. Copyright laws were put in place to protect intitys from the competition taking their idea and copying and reselling....

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Hackers sued for tinkering with Xbox games 2005-02-10
crippled ninja

I must commend you on a well written report!

You acctually did some homework, whereas the rest of the "reporting community" did no such thing.

Thank you...

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Hackers sued for tinkering with Xbox games 2005-02-10
Anonymous (3 replies)

This is nuts. Since when do the manufacturers or vendors of ANY product get to exercise control over how their customers use it? Cars get modded. Houses get modded. Clothing gets modded. Food gets modded. Yards and gardens get modded. If I want to purchase a set of fine china and use it for skeet pr...

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Hackers sued for tinkering with Xbox games 2005-02-10
Anonymous

The really absurd thing is how the IP gestapo wants to have it both ways. We "license" music/software/IP, we cant own it, but if we download this copyrighted work we are "stealing" it. If you are going to claim purchasing a copy of code is licensing some sort of functionality, you cant claim that do...

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Hackers sued for tinkering with Xbox games 2005-02-11
Arawn

You don't "own" the software, but you own the media it comes in. And you choose how to use it, for your personal use only, as long it isn't prejudicial to the licensing entity (the producer). Now, before you think I'm on the company side, read on.

Let's look at this issue imparcially:

- The user...

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Re: Hackers sued for tinkering with Xbox games 2006-09-06
Steve H

I agree with you 100%, as long as the "hacking doesn't involve stealing other's personal information, which I dont see how it would be done myself....

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Hackers sued for tinkering with Xbox games 2005-02-10
Former Ninjahacker member

Another corporation trying to take away our freedom.

"The love of liberty is the love of others; the love of power is the love of ourselves.

William Hazlitt (1778 - 1830)

...

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Hackers sued for tinkering with Xbox games 2005-02-10
Anonymous

What next? Car manufacturers suing people who respray the bodywork of their cars? What about those funny rubber characters with wobbly eyes that you can buy to stick on the end of a pencil?

This is daft!...

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Hackers sued for tinkering with Xbox games 2005-02-10
Anonymous (1 replies)

lol what a suckers. Making youre games modd able only sells more copy's. i think they just killed there own games....

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Hackers sued for tinkering with Xbox games 2005-02-10
Anonymous

look at other games that allow mods. unreal tournament allows people to make mods, skins, and maps. the ammount of content avaliable for free online makes the value of the game alot better. They encourage people to make mods. They had a contest for 1 million dollars for the winner of the best mo...

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Hackers sued for tinkering with Xbox games 2005-02-10
BaddaBing82

The PC market has embraced modding and actually releases the software in order for people to create custom content. Why should the console industry be any different?

...

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Hackers sued for tinkering with Xbox games 2005-02-10
Anonymous

[rant] load of ol' rubbish. the game [doabv] isnt wholesome at all. it eludes and hints to a number of double entendres that could be associated with adult themes. [/rant]...

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Hackers sued for tinkering with Xbox games 2005-02-10
Alterac (Alterac (at) McDonaldConsulting (dot) com [email concealed]) (2 replies)

This is complete crap, they bought the game, you arnt loosing any money, and we wouldnt have to modify it if they made the game properly to begin with.

Most of us are just trying to get more out of our investment, instead of feeling ripped off from lack of extras in the game.

"decompiling the ...

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Hackers sued for tinkering with Xbox games 2005-02-15
Orcusb

Oops, now we know how to mod, and they will sue us all. Isn't that the next logical step? Lets punish everyone who thinks wrong....

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Hackers sued for tinkering with Xbox games 2005-02-18
D'Glenn (dglenn (at) radix (dot) net [email concealed])

"'hackers' is not the term to use either [...]"

Actually, speaking as one who usually decries misuse of that word, I think this is one of the few times the media are using it appropriately. These are not people who attacked, broke-in, stole, etc., they're enthusiasts creating and applying "hacks...

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Hackers sued for tinkering with Xbox games 2005-02-10
Jam

You've got to be kidding me. This is absurd and cannot possably stand in court....

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Hackers sued for tinkering with Xbox games 2005-02-10
Rich (2 replies)

So does this mean that I can't put an aftermarket spoiler on my car? I'd understand if they were ripping off the code for their own games but they are simply modifying it and making it even more desireable. Maybe more hormone driven teenage boys will buy the game if they can make the characters na...

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Hackers sued for tinkering with Xbox games 2005-02-10
Anonymous

You're also not allowed to change the laces on your shoes. Badges on your shirts, or even your own cufflinks.

Oh and if you went to a hardressers... you'd have to get it stuck in concrete, as you wouldn't be allowed to modify that either!...

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Hackers sued for tinkering with Xbox games 2005-02-14
Michael (at) UltraPresence (dot) net [email concealed]

Don't go ripping your after-market spoilers off yours cars, stripping paint, etc. The problem here is not the law. The law is setup so that a company can producing a piece of software that they want to only be represented in it's intended way. So that it cannot be modded, and that defiantly should b...

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In other news... 2005-02-10
Anonymous (1 replies)

Honda decides to sue all Civic owners that illegally modify their cars.

The harm isn't just to the wholesome values of Honda Civics, hinted Honda spokesperson Andy Boyd. There's a principle at stake. "Hackers, if they're allowed to do this kind of thing, will be allowed to modify and Civic anywh...

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In other news... 2005-02-11
Kylratix

That's almost the same comparison I make when argue over debates of this nature.

Tecmo suing modifiers is like Honda coming to your house and putting tire-locks on your car for changing your muffler....

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lets list some current games: 2005-02-10
Anonymous (1 replies)

CounterStrike, Age Of Mythology(really any AOE game), Half-Life 2, Doom3, Starcraft, UTK2004.. not only do they give you the tools to edit and mod them as you please, they ENCOURAGE IT! they know it will bring more interest and revenue to the company. Tecmo must be bored. come on tecmo get real...

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lets list some current games: 2005-02-14
Christ, Jesus H.

three reasons for the suit:

1. they're intimidated.

2. corporate greed.

3. to instill fear into related online communities....

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Hackers sued for tinkering with Xbox games 2005-02-10
angrymachine

They must have something to hide....

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Hackers sued for tinkering with Xbox games 2005-02-11
Anonymous

Wow....Dont they know that people like to have a choice on skins....not everybody likes the same ole hum drum stuff, it give a verity to make the game intresting to play....not only that it will boost their sales of their software if people is given an option to modify it to their liking. If the la...

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Hackers sued for tinkering with Xbox games 2005-02-11
callmevil

this is Stupid.. its like you go out and buy a car and is told that ure NOT ALLOWED TO PAINT OVER IT!! then those shops that paints or re-paint cars get suit cuz its GOING AGAINST COPYRIGHT LAWS!! car makers/bot makers/cpu makers/phone makers/etc SPEND MUCH MUCH MUCH more money in their R&D and they...

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"We spent millions of dollars to develop these games, and people are coming in and changing the code to their liking, and that's illegal." 2005-02-11
tiger YAMATO

Except they're not changing any lines of code.

Graphics have nothing to do with code. This lawsuit is retarded....

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Hackers sued for tinkering with Xbox games 2005-02-11
Anonymous

I guess I can't by new tires for my car either, since it changes the original condition of the vehicle. ...

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Nipples = lawsuit 2005-02-11
Anonymous

I'm pretty sure the real reason techmo is going after this is because of the nudity. And yes, I think its retarded.

They'll spend months programming their breasts to bounce realisticly, but show some nipples and you get a lawsuit....

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Hackers sued for tinkering with Xbox games 2005-02-11
Anonymous

I agree with all the other posters here. This is tantamount to Ford suing people that change the supercharger pulley on their SVT Mustang Cobra. Or to put it in even better context, it's akin to Ford suing companys that sell chips which modify the ECU of the engine to give Powerstroke Diesels up t...

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Hackers sued for tinkering with Xbox games 2005-02-11
Tanis (1 replies)

Ok, Tecmo, if you are reading this, way to go. You've just put yourself on the stupid list along with Infinium Labs. What these people have done is NOT, I repeat, is NOT, illegal. Once I purchase an item, I can modify it all I want for my own personal use. I can not modify it and sell it as a compet...

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Hackers sued for tinkering with Xbox games 2005-02-15
Anonymous (1 replies)

Tecmo hasn't alienated this fan, buddy! While I can understand the argument everyone is putting out here, these games are the results of tons of hard work! For some hacks to take all that and change it, simply because they can is an insult to all of their work. I don't really care who wins this su...

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Hackers sued for tinkering with Xbox games 2005-02-18
D'Glenn (dglenn (at) radix (dot) net [email concealed])

Note that they were not publishing "derivative works" -- e.g. modded copies of the game -- which would be covered under traditional copyright protection. They were publishing instructions or "kits" for other owners of the game to effect the mods on their own.

To drag the sort-of-useful car analo...

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Boycott 2005-02-11
Anonymous

Hit their legal fund where it counts by not purchasing from Tecmo....

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Hackers sued for tinkering with Xbox games 2005-02-11
Anonymous (1 replies)

I have no time for corporations that come down hardest on their most loyal fans. I?m sure these guys are the first people in line when their games hit the stores. This lawsuit is absurd. Going through all of this trouble to stop people from changing skins? I thought companies liked the interest that...

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Hackers sued for tinkering with Xbox games 2005-02-20
Anonymous

well i dont Mod my Xbox, i dont change anything from some of my games but, that is only because i am a bit lazy, if i could i would change a few things,thats not illegal and the fact that Temco is tryin to sue over this is juss ludacris.Seriously i find it stupid, it was not illegal and just because...

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They Are Killing Their Own Best Customers: What Kind of Game Is DoA Beach Volleyball 2005-02-11
Anonymous

http://images.google.com/images?q=%22Dead%20or%20Alive%20Xtreme%20Beach%20Volleyball%22&hl=en&lr=&sa=N&tab=wi

Images of what kind of video game we are talking about here.

Look, guys who buy that want one thing: to see those chicks. That is how they market their app.

Seeing them nude would ...

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Hackers sued for tinkering with Xbox games 2005-02-13
Anonymous

what a joke !

people change skins all the time on games

Waste your money persuing this in court you morons !...

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Hackers sued for tinkering with Xbox games 2005-02-14
Sean Lynch

Wow, that's the last Tecmo game I'll ever buy.

Hope you get a lot of money from this lawsuit, you idiots, because you ain't gettin' any more from me! I can get my anime porn elsewhere.

...

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i'll never get this kind of behavour... 2005-02-14
Anonymous

things like this site actually add's to the games popularity...

for eg... i bought nwn, which was great, but i had no plans to buy its expansion packs.. UNTIL, the mod's and so forth started coming out that were really kewl... then i bought them..

Its a slightly different issue cause bioware a...

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Where is the outrage?! 2005-02-14
Pimpdad

Why don't issues like this make the nightly news? Why don't people stand up against all these big companies going after their customers. Who's looking out for the little guy. Meanwhile our liberties are being picked off one by one....

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Hackers sued for tinkering with Xbox games 2005-02-14
Anonymous

The main principle here is that the Ninja Hacker website never once released any type of the game(s)'s code. All they said were, "Want to create your own skins and play your favorite character using them? Here's how." They didn't even tell you how to mod an xbox or where to go to download a copy of ...

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Hackers sued for tinkering with Xbox games 2005-02-14
C. A.

Wouldn't screening them for their skills and hiring such individuals be a better idea than just suing them and wasting a load of money? Common sense goes a long way...

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Tecmo - you just lost a paying customer! 2005-02-14
Ex-Tecmo PAYING Customer!!!!!

Sue us, those who support you???

You people suck and should be ashamed of yourselves.

You were probably gaining extra sales just by the mere fact that these people were able to change the games to their liking.

You know, you should be honored that they would take the time to work with your ...

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Hackers sued for tinkering with Xbox games 2005-02-14
Anonymous

Corp. Nazi's at their best. Another example of business taking control over the little guy who is just trying to learn a little. At which point did that become a crime. The Corp machine do not like us learning on our own, we do what they say, we see what they want us to see, when we break this r...

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Hackers sued for tinkering with Xbox games 2005-02-14
Anonymous

Yea that's BS. It's not like they are asking for any money or royalities. I say everyone don't buy temco products!!!!...

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Lawsuit Heaven 2005-02-15
Orcusb

I think we are all missing the point. Tecmo wins whatever happens. If they win the lawsuit, they get money and a bit of publicity, and win some legal concession that may be worthwhile in the future. If they lose they will win really BIG. There will be loads of press, and perhaps TV, showing peop...

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Hackers sued for tinkering with Xbox games (Wht next???) 2005-02-15
cy0 (1 replies)

Tecmo is against these hackers becoz they are jealous of them as these people can modify their games and have gathered the knowledge of rebuilding or even tinkering with a game... I am in support of these hackers...Instead Tecmo sirs' I would like to tell you that you owe to these webmasters tht the...

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Hackers sued for tinkering with Xbox games (Wht next???) 2005-02-17
Anonymous

I think this is a bunch of bull shit. We should beable to mod the games to our needs. We bought the game, we bought the Xbox. Therefore we support Microsoft and Tecmo. Tecmo is being gay about a dedicated site to people who want to share their skins. Come on, get real Tecmo. Maybe some people ...

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Mechanics sued for modifying Vtec engine... 2005-02-15
Anonymous

What's next? You supe up your car and the manufacturer sues you for reverse engineering and patent infringement?...

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Legal situation in Germany 2005-02-16
Anonymous

The legal situation in Germany is totally different. Here (in Germany), reverse-engineering is only allowed, when it is inevitable to provide interoperability with other programs, and only if the original developer didn't provide proper interfaces or proper information about the interfaces. So far, ...

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We can help 2005-02-16
Larry

Tecmo is wrong in this lawsuit, but will probably end up wining. I'm sure they have deep pockets and ninjahacker.net is probably just some regular dudes. To go up against them and win (which I think they would) would cost some big bucks. How is a regular person supposed to come up with that money? I...

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Hackers sued for tinkering with Xbox games 2005-02-16
Anonymous

imagine ... what a crime ... tweak a game you love ... and even Bought, and have about 2 weeks more pleasure with it than unmodified ...

these people obviously will not buy another game if they couldn't modify anything, they'd be searching how to tweak their games to this moment, i am sure, the...

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Hackers sued for tinkering with Xbox games 2005-02-16
Anonymous

Tecmo got their $54 bucks out of the guy and its not as if they are selling their work. Thats like saying if you buy a car and you want to change the tires that Ford/Chevy is going to sue your ass off for messing with their product. You bought it you own it, what you do it is your own bussiness...

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This is going too far!!! 2005-02-16
aaron.shuford (at) wku (dot) edu [email concealed]

Since when is moding a videogame consitered illegal? People do that kind of stuff all the time. So if i get into my Dell computer, is that a copyright violation? if i tinker in my VCR, is that illegal? if I decide to draw mustashes and beards on Kasami in a magazine i bought, is that now illegal...

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Hackers sued for tinkering with Xbox games 2005-02-16
Anonymous

4 words: Tecmo, get a LIFE! (what idiots)...

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Hackers sued for tinkering with Xbox games 2005-02-17
Anonymous

The only thing I know is this :

Every day, Peoples buy cars and bikes ad have them repainted in very colorfull fashion, have the engine improved to run better or faster. None of this have even been considered illegal.

Now techmo advertise their game with sexual innuendo, includining a nude aya...

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Hackers sued for tinkering with Xbox games 2005-02-19
Anonymous

Its not illegal to paint your car a different color, or modify your home.

I hope they lose, I'll never buy one of their games!...

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All the car owners who tweaked their 4 wheels should be sued as well 2005-02-22
Anonymous

Nuff said...

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Hackers sued for tinkering with Xbox games 2006-03-22
Anonymous

If this kind of attitudes go on soon you will not be able to change the floor mats of your SUV because it will imply a violation of the design rights from the autotive manufacturers, this is nothing but ridiculous, and if so those manufacturers will be able to CLAIM for those sporty look tuned cars ...

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Hackers sued for tinkering with Xbox games 2006-07-06
Anonymous

The suit is idiotic...

Jim Baen, when he heard that some of the writers for his SF publishing house were afraid of E-book versions circulating about the internet, said " are they crazy? It's free advertising!" and decided to put up some on the company's website.

Or better yet, Halflife... if the...

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Hackers sued for tinkering with Xbox games 2007-02-07
Anonymous

Shut up technician, Games are supposed to be made for the community, not just the way you want it to be. If it was like that then noobody would play because many would believe it to be boring. Ok in otherwords "Gay" so screw off hippy!!!...

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Hackers sued for tinkering with Xbox games 2007-03-17
Anonymous

Tecmo just blew both of their feet of in a signle blast with a shotgun. this is absurd. so who out here agrees with me that tecmo is just doing this in the hopes of making money off of these guys. now if someone at tecmo had thought this trhough they would realize that as word of this spread the ent...

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