Fears of a Security Brain Drain

Fears of a Security Brain Drain
Annalee Newitz , SecurityFocus 2002-04-10

Some computer security professionals are already feeling the pinch from a new Defense Department policy discouraging contractors from hiring non-citizens. The Pentagon says it's about loyalty; visa holders call it classic xenophobia.

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Fears of a Security Brain Drain 2002-04-11
Anonymous (2 replies)

A lot of Security Development were devolped by no U.S Citizenship holder,

I think the DoD is radical they shift 180 degree and the only country that will lose is the United State, i agree that sensitive jobs require high security clearece require from the company to check each individual, but from ...

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Fears of a Security Brain Drain 2002-04-12
Anonymous (1 replies)

This is wonderful to hear about. Imagine jobs for Americans. I have applied for a number of jobs only to find them closed off and filled by non-US citizens. The lawyers have make a fortune on this. The idea was to lower cost by hiring non-US citizens. It worked. They get paid less, easy to lay...

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Fears of a Security Brain Drain 2002-04-16
Anonymous

The new headline should read. Lazy unqualified US employee's chear DOD initative to create new jobs and keep those foreign bums out.

I wonder what their parent's many of whom where their generation's foreign bums would think....

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Fears of a Security Brain Drain 2002-04-13
Anonymous

Well, I think that this is a great idea. All I have to say is finally, and the person that made the comment before me does not know how to spell, which proves he is not from the US....

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Fears of a Security Brain Drain 2002-04-11
Conscious US Citizen (1 replies)

Rekhi said;

"They're going to lose smart people -- how are they going to manage without using Indian software developers?"

Then in the same breath said;

"Nobody is really worried about this policy because defense contracting jobs are the least attractive."

Does he really believe that f...

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Security Brain Drain -- yeah, right! 2002-04-11
Anonymous (6 replies)

Another interesting point I'd like to mention is that his comment, asking how we will manage without Indian programmers, is ridiculous anyway.

Lest anyone forget, computer science was invented in the United States and Great Britain by American and English electrical engineers (mostly white, angl...

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Security Brain Drain -- yeah, right! 2002-04-12
oscar

"computer science was invented in the United States and Great Britain by American and English electrical engineers (mostly white, anglo-saxons, by the way, NOT Indians)"

Above you can see a racist and shortsighted comment. Computer science was invented by immigrants, and Americans in the States. ...

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Security Brain Drain -- yeah, right! 2002-04-12
Anonymous

There are a whole lot of jobs out there that are not DoD. This post seems racial, angered and defensive. Why make a big deal out of who invented Computer Science? You're obviously not a professional.

H1 immigrants fueled the IT economy for the past few years to make the software industry soar....

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Security Brain Drain -- yeah, right! 2002-04-13
Anonymous

Nothing is radiculus,

Don't look at the past, what you did ? Look at the future and what it's going to be without Indian Community is Computer Profession.

...

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Security Brain Drain -- yeah, right! 2002-04-13
Indian

>>Lest anyone forget, computer science was invented in the United States and Great Britain by American and English electrical engineers (mostly white, anglo-saxons, by the way, NOT Indians).

SO WHAT!!!!

>>India has come to computer science quite late, having adopted this primarily American...

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Security Brain Drain -- yeah, right! 2002-04-15
Anonymous

"We have thousands of colleges and universities turning out tens of thousands of computer science grads annually."

And yet most of them can't produce high quality, secure software. Learn this: it's ONE global market, everyone is available to work everywhere.

Do your best, get a job.

Not good ...

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Security Brain Drain -- yeah, right! 2002-04-16
Anonymous

Let's not forget, there's more than just citizenship and H1-B and more than just American or Indian. There's literally hundreds, if not thousands of residents, a lot of them European, in the security industry.

Being American does not protect you from being disloyal to your country, being a US cit...

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Fears of a Security Brain Drain 2002-04-11
Anonymous

Just to put some hard facts to this matter.

I am a US Citizen that worked for the DOD for a long period of time and am very familiar with many of their systems, procedures, and methods. Recently I was laid off and NOT A SINGLE DOD CONTRACTOR would reply to any applications I submitted for work. I h...

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Fears of a Security Brain Drain 2002-04-11
soon to be citizen

This is silly. I would be willing to bet that India, Pakistan, etc do not allow foriegners to work on their code why should the US?

How about applying for citizenship? If conflicts can be found with that then the DOD can find conflicts with immigrants working on their code.

...

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Fears of a Security Brain Drain 2002-04-11
a Canadian

This is just another example of the rediculous restrictions that the government is putting in place following 9-11. As a Canadian who has always felt an affinity towards the US similiar to one felt for a sibling, it pains me greatly to see these types of restrictions. The US is moving away from wh...

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Fears of a Security Brain Drain 2002-04-11
Anonymous (1 replies)

glad to hear such a tone, however potentially politically incorrect, that this is at least somewhat nonsense. I too have 7 years of security experience (not so much, but not so bad either) and while I've had a few bites (2), I've hardly had folks banging down my door from an industry supposedly frau...

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Fears of a Security Brain Drain 2002-04-12
German in America

It is interesting to hear all the comments. Americans seem to always think that they are the best engineers, the best programmers, the best whatever. Think of it that way: it is a great incentive for any national to work with people from other countries. I came to the US to broaden my horizon, to co...

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Fears of a Security Brain Drain 2002-04-12
An TRUE American (4 replies)

I agree with DoD. This country should have done this long ago. And I hope that the government does this with all jobs within the U.S. This is America and it should continue to be built by Americans....

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There isn't going to be any brain-drain... Be realistic... 2002-04-13
Anonymous

While I agree with the sentiment, I don't agree with the statement...

Before I started my own company, I routinely competed with immigrant consultants of certain racial persuasions, and I found that very often, these certain racial persuasions were favored because they accepted consulting rates...

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Fears of a Security Brain Drain 2002-04-13
Anonymous

to the one who wrote:

>I agree with DoD. This country should have done this long >ago. And I hope that the government does this with all >jobs within the U.S. This is America and it should >continue to be built by Americans.

Should I remind you that modern America was build by immigrants? Ame...

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Fears of a Security Brain Drain 2002-04-13
Born in the USA

I concur 100%. I do not trust the security of my country to someone born and raised in another country. Nor would I expect them to let me code for their national security. Let them all work on projects for their own governments, I am sure that we are not the only country concerned with cyber defense...

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Fears of a Security Brain Drain 2002-04-15
Anonymous

"This is America and it should continue to be built by Americans."

...that's fine. Let Americans build their own country...but let's stop Americans trying to build America outside their country.

...

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Fears of a Security Brain Drain 2002-04-12
A TRUE American

It's 1943 again 2002-04-12
Anonymous (1 replies)

"Clearly non-U.S. citizens do not owe their primary loyalty to the U.S. That's just a fact of life". -- Pete Nelson, DoS

I remember someone in my country saying these words, but back in

1943 and it was about jews and not about all the world.

someone who cares....

...

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It's 1943 again 2002-04-13
Anonymous

Loyalty? To a country? What a joke. If I gave two sh*ts about my country, then why am I not in it? Fools....

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Fears of a Security Brain Drain 2002-04-12
boolean_machine

I think the DoD should be more concerned with the actual abilities of the individual that implements any type of security for them. You can be the most patriotic citizen that is "loyal to the U.S.", yet leave gaping security holes in code, network infrastructures, etc..

The DoD needs to understan...

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Across the board 2002-04-12
Jesse Gilbert

If my understanding is correct, this argument only applies to the IT staff of the DoD contractor. This makes no sense what so ever. I have done work with several local aerospace companies that contract with the DoD, and the IS dept is not the only department employing foreign nationals. What about f...

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Fears of a Security Brain Drain 2002-04-12
Anon

As much as it pains me to say it, I really can't blame the DoD. We are in a war where we are not sure who the enemy is. We have terrorist cells in our country working in H1-B visa jobs, working as pilots, using our country's freedom to kill us. We have European countries begging for hand-outs wit...

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Fears of a Security Brain Drain 2002-04-12
Another Canadian

There is a NAFTA clause which would permit the US Government to exclude Canadians and Mexicans from participating on contracts deemed of "essential security interest". However should this clause be invoked, the US Government would be required to insist on a US security clearance for any US citizen ...

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Fears of a Security Brain Drain 2002-04-12
Anonymous

Well Said!!!...

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Fears of a Security Brain Drain 2002-04-13
Comment from one Indian

Everyone knows that 80% of the IT Industry Development work is done by Non-US-Citizens ( perticularly Indian-Chinese community ). You can check it out by going to Computer Science-Software Engineering-IT departments of the most of the Grad Schools.

I don't think that this industry will keep up with...

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Fears of a Security Brain Drain 2002-04-13
America First

I think this is long overdue. Why should my tax dollars fly overseas to foreign workers when there are unemployed American programmers looking for work. I'm sure that the government of India isn't hiring U.S. programmers for their projects. I know of many good American programmers who are having dif...

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Fears of a Security Brain Drain 2002-04-14
Anonymous

Hi All,

I think DOD are making a biiiiig mistake, I am Irish (no big deal)most of our good coders in this country are not Irish sitizens.

Oh we got lots of USA d00d's over too, should we ask them to go home.

Bad move .... DOD.

Mark Fagan

Senior Security Architect ...

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Fears of a Security Brain Drain 2002-04-15
A true ...whatever

America as nation, is the result of the emigration. If the color of your skin is not 'red' then don't forget your origin. America is in a deep crisis. It is loosing credibility in front of the rest of the world.

So I welcome this initiative. It is a pity that it is only applied to the DoD.

For t...

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Fears of a Security Brain Drain 2002-04-15
Pacific Islander

White America has to realize and reflect that their country is built on immigration. Did their forefathers not drive away the American Indians to lay claim to their "native" soil?

With globalization comes the hard truth that you are now competing against everyone in the world. A lot of immigrants...

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Steenking immigrants 2002-04-15
Anonymous

RIght on! Get rid of all those foreign nationals paying US taxes! America should have done this long ago, and never let persons of foreign origin like Einstein, Oppenheimer and Fermi to work on the Manhattan Project.

Heil!...

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Fears of a Security Brain Drain 2002-04-15
Anonymous

I am fairly new and young to IT but I don't understand that if the visa holders are not disloyal unto the US and enjoy being here and enjoy the life that they have here than why not become a citizen. Then there would be no problems with loss of jobs or benefits not being paid or being underpaid. I...

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And you can't be the President either... 2002-04-15
Anonymous

Its about determining the level of trust, not the individual. If you weren't born in the US you can't be the president. And if your father was convicted of a federal offense you can't be in the secret service either. I can go on and on. I qualify for both and want neither. Personally I don't ca...

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Petty Name Calling under the guise of Nationalistic Fervor 2002-04-15
Wondering what the point is

Well this post may not garner me many points on anyone's list, but I think I'll state it anyway.

Most of the comments that have been posted that I read (I admit I stopped reading 5 to the end) seem to be basically either rah rah US or name calling without many facts to back it up. To be fair, he...

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Fears of a Security Brain Drain 2002-04-16
Brazilian Worker

The United States of America.

A land of freedom, opportunities. A true american? A true american is an apache indian, an siouxie indian, or so.

Remember, my friends of America, the United States needed the World once, and it was the land of opportunity.

Every "non-citizen" from Italy, Ireland...

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Fears of a Security Brain Drain 2002-04-16
blacklight

Everyone should be subject to security checks and/or background investigations if the type of work they do actually calls for it.

Good security is security that is necessary and that actually makes sense. A security policy that requires US citizenship for non-classified work does not make a ton ...

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Let us be realistic 2002-04-16
Bob - US Citizen, Government employee for the Military

Any country that was attack like the US that traditionally believed they were immune to such things would naturally react like the US regarding their foreign policy. However, working for the government I believe that many of the foreigners hired are under qualified. Not to say all of them. But I ...

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Fears of a Security Brain Drain 2002-04-17
Anonymous

I say kick 'em all out! No more H1-B visas.

Don't you worry about us not having the needed skilled people. We'll be just fine without foreigners coming here to take the milk and honey and not make a commitment to become an American. If you don't like it here, you are free to go. I can't believe...

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