Search: Home Bugtraq Vulnerabilities Mailing Lists Jobs Tools Beta Programs
Area 51 hackers dig up trouble
Kevin Poulsen, SecurityFocus 2004-05-25

To the Area 51 buffs who travel to the Nevada desert in the hopes of catching a glimpse of unexplained lights in the sky or to bask in the mythic allure of the region, 58-year-old Chuck Clark is almost as much a part of the local color as the Black Mailbox.

Comments Mode:
Area 51 hackers dig up trouble 2004-05-26
Anonymous (15 replies)
Area 51 would better be left alone for National Security. The US Air Force does many test that benifit the US as well the

citizens of the USA.People that work there

sign a very different than other, Non Desclosure Agreement!

I hope you can undestand this as and American?

GOD BLESS AMERICA AND ...

[ more ]  [ reply ]
Area 51 hackers dig up trouble 2004-05-26
billy (4 replies)
the cold war ended many years ago. yet the governments of the world still continue to increase their war machine. do you realize how many camera satellites spy upon the earth. that if you "upset" certain portions of the government looking for the truth or justice, you can be put on a watch list ,dep...

[ more ]  [ reply ]
Area 51 hackers dig up trouble 2004-05-26
Anonymous
You need to understand the proper defense here. The government is not so easy to defend against, obviously. However, we can fight what they are hiding.

http://www.xenex.org/oz/...

[ more ]  [ reply ]
Area 51 hackers dig up trouble 2004-05-26
Anonymous (5 replies)
The only reason you have any so-called Constitutional rights is because those "Feds" who are guarding our Nation's Defense interests and secrets are doing their job.

The American Military is one of the most technoligcally advanced in the world. It is a small and robust force that can dominate la...

[ more ]  [ reply ]
Area 51 hackers dig up trouble 2004-05-26
Anonymous
of Course we are free, to conform. Of course none of those secrets cover anything of detriment to the people, of course the military fought for human rights and freedom of speech and still do, everything is ok, nothing to see here move along...

[ more ]  [ reply ]
Area 51 hackers dig up trouble 2004-05-27
Anonymous
Actually, the U.S. military doesn't keep you and I free. That's what the Constitution, and the vigilance of a handful of concerned citizens do. Left to the legislative and executive branch, without oversight, our rights as citizens would be trampled upon as surely as they have been in civilization...

[ more ]  [ reply ]
Area 51 hackers dig up trouble 2004-05-28
Anonymous (1 replies)
While I agree that publicly compromising a military survaliance system is silly beyond measure. I cannot agree that the US is a bastion of freedom or that the military protects those freedoms. Seen from outside the US becomes less free then most western nations every day. It is sad and scary to wat...

[ more ]  [ reply ]
Area 51 hackers dig up trouble 2004-05-28
Anonymous (4 replies)
Sir, are you high? Show me this secret police. This article is about some moron who decided to go mess with military security systems. He should have been shot not arrested. If I saw someone messing with motion sensors on my home security system I would assume they were trying to figure out a way pa...

[ more ]  [ reply ]
Area 51 hackers dig up trouble 2004-05-30
Anonymous (1 replies)
If you check the article the sensors were not on the base, they were on public land away from the base and easily accessible. He did not have to tresspass to get to them, as aposed to your hypothetical burglar....

[ more ]  [ reply ]
Re: Area 51 hackers dig up trouble 2007-02-04
Anonymous
people don't abide by speed limit signs so why should we abide by no trespassing signs, I have been to area 51 on janis airlines doing HVAC there they made us sign a document that says if we ever devulge what is seen or heard there they can lock you up and throw away the key, thats why I sleep with ...

[ more ]  [ reply ]
Area 51 hackers dig up trouble 2004-05-31
Anonymous
The sensors are outside the base.

Not that that justifies messing with them, but, however, they could just have made the base bigger, not allowing anyone in. So one could be arrested for being in that area.

Who would want larger restricted area's?

These ouside sensors are on the border of restric...

[ more ]  [ reply ]
Area 51 hackers dig up trouble 2004-06-01
Anonymous (1 replies)
Do you place your home security systems sensors on someone else's property? Do you then feel justified in shooting someone for messing with your sensors when you've placed them beyond the area within your authority?...

[ more ]  [ reply ]
Area 51 hackers dig up trouble 2004-06-02
Anonymous
The article only listed that the land was "Public", what exactly does that mean? Someone has to own the land, either the goverment (federal, state or local) or it is owned by a private owner. Either way, it wasn't his land so he was not authorized to tamper with anything he found. The are power t...

[ more ]  [ reply ]
Re: Area 51 hackers dig up trouble 2008-11-03
Anonymous
the sensors were not on a military base,they were on public land you moron....

[ more ]  [ reply ]
Re: Area 51 hackers dig up trouble 2005-10-01
Anonymous
High tech military? How funny, STOP!!! You are making my side hurt!

When I was in the military, from '89 to '93, I was in charge of maintaining a radar system so "high tech". The build year stamp was dated 1947. There was a new version out for five years before it was decided that a command sh...

[ more ]  [ reply ]
Re: Area 51 hackers dig up trouble 2006-07-12
Anonymous (1 replies)
The American Army Is Weapons Mad ,It's Not Technologicaly Advanced It's Barbaric.

All We Want Is To Kow The Truth What Is Wrong With That.

I Have Deen Studying Area51 All My Life nd I Have A Good Idea Of Whats Going On.

So Believie What You Want To Believe But ,I Believe We Have A Right To ...

[ more ]  [ reply ]
Re: Re: Area 51 hackers dig up trouble 2007-05-04
Anonymous
You'd be disappointed if you really knew what was going on. Nothing very exotic....

[ more ]  [ reply ]
Stupid is as stupid does 2004-05-26
Sgt_Jake (5 replies)
Billy, or should I say surveillance subject 19873-AS-4VTR-932357, there's healthy paranoia, and there's stupid.

That guy got himself into trouble because he was explaining to the world how to detect and find surveillance equipment used by the military, not for pulling the curtain back on Oz, wit...

[ more ]  [ reply ]
Stupid is as stupid does 2004-05-26
Colonel Joe (5 replies)
If some dill-hole in Nevada can compromise your precious "national security", imagine what a trained terrorist might be able to do...you and your ilk should be THANKFUL for dill holes like these who are, with no intention of destroying our country, discovering these security flaws, so that our milit...

[ more ]  [ reply ]
Keeping an eye on them varmints 2004-05-26
Anonymous
I see a lot of "don't mess with the National Defense, They Know Better Than You Do".

This about the same government that gave us LSD experiments, radiation dosage experiments, the Bay of Pigs, the Sgt. York, SDI, and any number of other fiascos.

The reason we have "so called constitutional r...

[ more ]  [ reply ]
Stupid is as stupid does 2004-05-26
Anonymous 2
Actually, I figure a little of both happened.

The equipment is left where the public can get to it intentionally - and a big deal is made about the instance intentionally, if it's found. It's called disinformation, right?

In the interest of some thoughtful reply -

is it possible this was ...

[ more ]  [ reply ]
Stupid is as stupid does 2004-05-26
Anonymous
Agreed

To "Sgt" Jake

Do you honestly believe this is their ONLY early warning system in place? If you do, then one of two things are happening: Either you are gullible and have no idea how to secure an area, or that this installation is not as important as you were lead to believe. Security to...

[ more ]  [ reply ]
Stupid is as stupid does 2004-05-27
Anonymous
Gotta love people who violate their own rant about someone else. And turn off the caps lock. Are you an AOLuser from the early 90s?

If you're wondering about what I'm referring, you say he's a jerk-off YET YOU YELL blah blah blah. You then proceed to make assumptions about the sensors, their in...

[ more ]  [ reply ]
Re: Stupid is as stupid does 2005-06-15
Anonymous
The gov. tells us what they want us to know. They do what they feel is nesscesary to keep their secreats safe. They will do whatever it take to protect the lies they have made accessable to the public, even if it means taking lives. The gov. does whatever, whenever, wherever they feel....

[ more ]  [ reply ]
Stupid is as stupid does 2004-05-26
Anonymous
The special services should be sleeping better now that some 'dill hole' has informed them that their carefully hidden boxes are easily detected and can be hacked into. If some 'dill hole' can do it as a hobby, certainly someone more determined to actually penetrate a base could do the same. Altho...

[ more ]  [ reply ]
Stupid is as stupid does 2004-05-28
Gen. Stupidity
If they have a secret base in a place that has had over 100 indy and prime movies made about it, then our govt is stupid and we are doomed.

...

[ more ]  [ reply ]
Stupid is as stupid does 2004-05-31
gactech
Early warning from who? Considering where there located they have the whole country as an early warning device. With the protection and security they have in place around "AREA 51" sensors that far away from the base is not needed. They are being overly protective with "our" tax dollars and are hara...

[ more ]  [ reply ]
Re: Stupid is as stupid does 2005-06-15
Anonymous
Well I think the goverment should stop lieing to the american people. It's seems as though we don't have right's, or should I say we have only the rights that the gov. will allow us to have. I pay taxes and I'm a law abiding citizin, so why do I have to be kept in the dark? like so many other americ...

[ more ]  [ reply ]
Area 51 hackers dig up trouble 2004-05-26
Hollywood 15 (1 replies)
this just goes to show how an individual can be maniplulated/threatened into submission. Masses are needed to cause change. Im just now sure THIS is were the priority should be. There are worse issues such as oil and energy prices/supply and ultimately those are the things that really have us und...

[ more ]  [ reply ]
What's good for the goose... 2004-05-26
Anonymous
...is good for the gander.

What's your address? I want to come over to your house and see if I can break in. Just to improve your house's security....

[ more ]  [ reply ]
Area 51 hackers dig up trouble 2004-05-26
Anonymous (1 replies)
Wow...

Just makes you wonder what else they have laying around out there......

[ more ]  [ reply ]
Area 51 hackers dig up trouble 2004-05-26
Anonymous (1 replies)
as many people as there are that work there, i can't believe someone doesn't talk, or maybe they are all brainwashed....

[ more ]  [ reply ]
Yea, brainwashed. That's it. 2004-05-27
Reality check
Yea, they're all brainwashed.

Or maybe they go to work in the morning, go home at night like everyone else, and then laugh when they read about the lunatic conspiracy theories and paranoid fantasies that persist about their work.

All of these freaks could be given a guided tour of the whole fa...

[ more ]  [ reply ]
You're a mentalist 2004-05-26
A.N. Other (1 replies)
It's blinkered, unquestioning, attitudes like yours that have been responsible for the establishment of every brutal dictatorship in history.

You've every right to be proud....

[ more ]  [ reply ]
Eh? 2004-05-26
Anonymous
> You're a mentalist.

mentalist - (n) mind reader

Your subject makes no sense.

You seem to be suggesting that the government should be prohibited for keeping secrets. So should you be allowed to keep secrets? C'mon, what're you doing in your house where we can't see? 'Fess up!...

[ more ]  [ reply ]
Area 51 hackers dig up trouble 2004-05-26
Anonymous
Bla blah..

America is only blessed when it embraces the Constitution and the Madisonian governance principles that define it. Any other interpretation of american patriotism is misguided and dangerous. Read up about the constitution, checks and balances and the madisonian view if you really lov...

[ more ]  [ reply ]
Area 51 hackers dig up trouble 2004-05-26
mfritz0 (at) pacbell (dot) net [email concealed]
Actually road sensors are all over the place in California, NOT JUST AREA 51. I personally have found many just hiking in the Sierra Nevadas. Many are placed by the Forest service for survey purposes and other information gathering purposes, just because one finds a sensor along the road there is ...

[ more ]  [ reply ]
Area 51 hackers dig up trouble 2004-05-26
Anonymous
Yes, area alone should be left alone for the sake of the country!

Also, for good measure, cameras should be placed in every home, business and niche of this great country to safe guard our national security. Only those with nefarious intentions will refuse, then, WE NAB THEM!...

Also, for our na...

[ more ]  [ reply ]
Area 51 hackers dig up trouble 2004-05-26
Anonymous (1 replies)
How long before the information is obsolete? We still have documents from WWII and earlier that are classified.

Which of them do you think is protecting our current military?

How many of them do you think are protecting someone's personal agenda or dirty little secrets?...

[ more ]  [ reply ]
Area 51 hackers dig up trouble 2004-05-27
Anonymous
> We still have documents from WWII and earlier that are classified.

> Which of them do you think is protecting our current military?

Erm, atomic weapon details, nerve gas production, anthrax experiments (abandoned), long range rocketry, 2nd half of Shannon's information theory paper,

> How m...

[ more ]  [ reply ]
Area 51 hackers dig up trouble 2004-06-01
Anonymous
They can protect it without intruding into "public" land. Otherwise, they can put sensors literally anywhere they want, like phone lines or cell phone towers, and anyone that 'interferes' because maybe they want retain some privacy, can be charged with 'interfering with a government communications ...

[ more ]  [ reply ]
Re: Area 51 hackers dig up trouble 2005-08-14
Anonymous
oh yeah right,god forbid you or me from risking national security by digging up a box in their desert. cheny and or rove can out a cia agent and its no big deal. haha you make me laugh....

[ more ]  [ reply ]
Re: Area 51 hackers dig up trouble 2005-09-09
Anonymous
The Government`s security should stop at the boundry line...If they guarded our mexican border as well as area 51 we wouldn`t have any immigration problems....

[ more ]  [ reply ]
Re: Area 51 hackers dig up trouble 2005-12-12
Anonymous
All I can say is that I'm glad I live in the U.K.!

...

[ more ]  [ reply ]
Re: Area 51 hackers dig up trouble 2006-03-18
Anonymous
i am an american and ive been collecting data on area 51 for the past threee onths and i realize that yur little country is pulling a conspricy on the ppl and illl take w/e neeeds to fing out wats going on thorugh that place even if it means arrest...or maybe death

sincerely, a concerned 11yr o...

[ more ]  [ reply ]
Re: Area 51 hackers dig up trouble 2008-02-27
Anonymous
Both Chuck and Arnu should have been thrown in jail for a year. We need new advances in technology kept from the public and our enemies. There is a whole lot of desert to go play in....

[ more ]  [ reply ]
Re: Area 51 hackers dig up trouble 2008-03-05
Anonymous
I believe, seriously.

Channel 10....

[ more ]  [ reply ]
Re: Area 51 hackers dig up trouble 2008-05-18
Anonymous
I accompanied the ridiculous ~myth~ of AREA 51. Surely the government hasn't realized that if it is true the people need to know or else~ there will be more act of hacks in government access to this....

[ more ]  [ reply ]
Area 51 hackers dig up trouble 2004-05-26
billy (2 replies)
amazing how the goverment can just attack you with threats and intimidation and call it all in the name of security.

the people are nothing but sheep. just annoyances to the government.

laws are never broken,yet you can be held without legal council or even a future trial. the men in black can do ...

[ more ]  [ reply ]
Area 51 hackers dig up trouble 2004-05-26
Anonymous (9 replies)
Actually laws _were_ broken, so you can get off the "Remember Waco!" soapbox now....

[ more ]  [ reply ]
Area 51 hackers dig up trouble 2004-05-26
Simon Nunsba (1 replies)
I agree, protection of our secret projects from people that would use that technology against us is valid. It is not like these devices imobilized people or created any harm to anyone.

I imagine that "Billy" also thinks that the power company listens to you through your outlets and that the gove...

[ more ]  [ reply ]
Area 51 hackers dig up trouble 2004-05-28
Anonymous
The power company may not be monitoring you through your outlet but I know for a fact that devices like digital cable terminal are capable of monitoring which electronic devices you plug into your outlet. The logs contain errors but they are really close???.

I would not be surprise if they power co...

[ more ]  [ reply ]
Area 51 hackers dig up trouble 2004-05-26
Anonymous (1 replies)
The suit claim that laws were broken but to paraphrase the 'offenders' ascociate: I can't imagine that he would be stupid enough to remove one of the things.

No, he probably wouldn't, but the suits can fit him up for it easily.. prooving again that they are above the law!

I suspect the 'offend...

[ more ]  [ reply ]
Area 51 hackers dig up trouble 2004-05-26
Joerg H. Arnu (Dreamland Resort Webmaster) (2 replies)
Thank you. As one of the "offenders" I can assure everyone that we did not break any laws, and never intended to. We love this country, and what it stands for, as much as the next guy.

The sensors were on public land. We dug them up, photographed them and re-buried them, making sure they still wo...

[ more ]  [ reply ]
Area 51 hackers dig up trouble 2004-05-27
Anonymous
> The sensors were on public land.

That doesn't give you the right to touch them! People park their cars on public land, too, but if you open one without permission, you're a criminal!

> We dug them up, photographed them and re-buried them,

On your own website, you clear state that you also dis...

[ more ]  [ reply ]
Re: Area 51 hackers dig up trouble 2007-05-04
Anonymous
You guys were quick to brag about your findings on your web site. Even told us what number the sensor was set to. Yeah, you are innocent as the day is long. Go back to Germany and see what they would do to you over there. If you want to stay here...find something productive to do. You guys got ...

[ more ]  [ reply ]
Area 51 hackers dig up trouble 2004-05-26
Anonymous (3 replies)
your right laws where broken, the fact that its ILLEGAL to plant devices like that on public land. Thats invasion of privacy! As it is there are miles of goverment property around the base, infact they increased the amount after people where able to view into the base from a nearby hill.

While y...

[ more ]  [ reply ]
Area 51 hackers dig up trouble 2004-05-26
Anonymous
Your not exactly on public land.

You are on Nevada Test Range. They can do pretty much whatever is needed to protect the land.

While the actual base boundaries are defined, they have been cleared to extend security beyond that point. Pretty sure it all was approved last time they extended the ...

[ more ]  [ reply ]
Area 51 hackers dig up trouble 2004-05-27
Anonymous
> your right laws where broken, the fact that its ILLEGAL to plant devices like that on public land.

Hogwash. If it doesn't harm the area or interfere with legitimate uses of the area, there is no such restriction.

> PUBLIC land. Thats invasion of PRIVACY!

Emphasis added. Notice the problem...

[ more ]  [ reply ]
Illegal? Rofl! 2004-05-27
Anonymous
>> your right laws where broken, the fact that its ILLEGAL to plant devices like that on public land.

Really? Then red light cameras are perhaps illegal too? What law does it violate?

>> Thats invasion of privacy!

Whose privacy? The cactus'??

>> As it is there are miles of goverment...

[ more ]  [ reply ]
Area 51 hackers dig up trouble 2004-05-26
Anonymous (1 replies)
LOL, and you (Americans) are the people who use so called "freedom" as a trademark.

Sorry guys, but you make yourself ridiculous....

[ more ]  [ reply ]
Area 51 hackers dig up trouble 2004-05-27
Anonymous
So what is the wonderful country you come from, where the military doesn't get upset when you interfere with alarm systems at the perimeter of bases?...

[ more ]  [ reply ]
Area 51 hackers dig up trouble 2004-05-26
Anonymous (1 replies)
yes. by the govenment.

if i run across something on public land I think you could make a case that those unatended sensor on public land would qualify as "abandoned"

...

[ more ]  [ reply ]
Area 51 hackers dig up trouble 2004-05-27
Anonymous
> if i run across something on public land I think you

All of you guys are working on two completely nonsense theories:

a) That the government can''t put stuff on public land. Nonsense; within certain limits on environmental harm, other people's access to the area, etc, anyone can put stuff on p...

[ more ]  [ reply ]
Area 51 hackers dig up trouble 2004-05-26
Paul
Time to get re-fitted for your tinfoil hat there Billy. Places like Groom Lake are needed as much for peace as they are for war. Don't forget that many of the things that we take for granted day to day came from military research. Go tune in to Tactical to Practicle some night to see what I mean....

[ more ]  [ reply ]
Area 51 hackers dig up trouble 2004-05-26
Tommy (3 replies)
The only law being broke is the theft of goverment property.

Since the arrest was months after the theft and this is a desert area; only a confession would be prove that the guy actually did the theft.

The taking of his equipment; the ban on his being at the site and probably other things that m...

[ more ]  [ reply ]
Area 51 hackers dig up trouble 2004-05-26
Joerg H. Arnu (Dreamland Resort Webmaster)
For the record: The area is not marked in any way. It is frequently used by 4-wheelers, hikers, campers and for other recreational purposes that have nothing to do with spying on Area 51. I wonder how all those people would feel if they knew they were spied on the whole time....

[ more ]  [ reply ]
Signs, signs, everywhere signs... 2004-05-26
Anonymous
It's illegal to steal street signs, so I don't know what your point is.

Also, if you dug them up and took them apart, even if you put them back up, I'm pretty sure the D.O.T. would raise more than an eyebrow....

[ more ]  [ reply ]
Area 51 hackers dig up trouble 2004-05-27
Anonymous
> The only law being broke is the theft of goverment property.

No, also trespass to property, and interfering with a transmitter.

> Since the arrest was months after the theft and this is a desert area; only a confession would be prove that the guy actually did the theft.

Na, check out Arnu...

[ more ]  [ reply ]
Area 51 hackers dig up trouble 2004-05-26
Joerg H. Arnu (Dreamland Resort Webmaster) (1 replies)
Not true. Aside from the false claim in this article that we stole a sensor, name one law that we broke....

[ more ]  [ reply ]
Digging a hole for yourself... 2004-05-26
The Shoveller
> name one law that we broke -- Joerg H. Arnu

How about digging on public land, for starters?...

[ more ]  [ reply ]
Area 51 hackers dig up trouble 2004-05-29
Anonymous
No.... No laws were broken, no laws were violated. A member of the public pointed out to the other members of the public things he found (but did not break) on public land.

Had he removed every single one of those devices, while remaining on public land, NOT military land, he would have broken s...

[ more ]  [ reply ]
Get a clue 2004-05-26
HankHolmes (2 replies)
Sounds like:

1. somebody needs a hug, or

2. has simply been watching too many X-Files reruns

I'm leaning toward #1.

Laws WERE broken and in case your reading comprehension is impaired, these guys, um, ***DOCUMENTED*** their screwing around with government property.

Let's say I put up a fr...

[ more ]  [ reply ]
RE: Get a clue 2004-05-26
James (2 replies)
But the difference between comcast equiptment and these motion sensors is that THEY'RE MOTION SENSORS! Comcast equiptment isn't dedicated to tracking movement in a public area and if it is then I would definately want to know were it is....

[ more ]  [ reply ]
RE: Get a clue 2004-05-26
Bridget (1 replies)
I agree, I am a "Free American" I do not like the idea of being watched when I'm on a nature hike or camping.

On the other hand, I do believe we need to safeguard our Country in every way possible even if it means survielence to protect "Safeguarded Government Projects".

Catch 22??

...

[ more ]  [ reply ]
RE: Get a clue 2004-05-29
JUDITH
If you want to safe guard your country, A better way would be to insist on NO SECRECY LAWS & insist on knowing where every cent is spent.

Put your politicians under constant surveilance & record their meetings so outside agenda`s cant slip them sweeteners to sell out good decisions & betray the peo...

[ more ]  [ reply ]
RE: Get a clue 2004-05-27
Anonymous
>But the difference between comcast equiptment and these motion sensors is that THEY'RE MOTION SENSORS! Comcast equiptment isn't dedicated to tracking movement in a public area and if it is then I would definately want to know were it is.

Exactly, they're motion sensors, buried in the middle frea...

[ more ]  [ reply ]
Get a clue 2004-05-27
Anonymous
Last I checked, utility companies like Comcast are allowed to place their equipment in very specific sections of land designated for such equipment. Take a look, I'm betting right next to the Comcast box (or near it) is another box with telco equipment, power lines, water lines, gas lines, etc. Th...

[ more ]  [ reply ]
Area 51 hackers dig up trouble 2004-05-26
Anonymous (1 replies)
how is it against the law to dig up something placed in public lands?

your comments make me think you are either stupid, or hiding your head in the sand. Wake up and take the government seriousely....they are taking you seriousely i can assure you....

[ more ]  [ reply ]
Dig this. 2004-05-26
Anonymous
> how is it against the law to dig up something placed in public lands?

Um, because there are signs that say it is illegal to dig, cut, or remove minerals or plants from public lands?

Smokey knows where you live!...

[ more ]  [ reply ]
Area 51 hackers dig up trouble 2004-05-26
Anonymous (1 replies)
Its perfectly acceptable to be curious about the area surrounding Area 51, and I feel an american right to be able to explore the surrounjding area. However, when it comes to tampering with U.S. military private property, and so marked, this is where the line should be drawn. ...

[ more ]  [ reply ]
Re: Area 51 hackers dig up trouble 2007-03-17
Anonymous
area 51 its nothing but us's area where ithides it'ssins...

[ more ]  [ reply ]
Area 51 hackers dig up trouble 2004-05-26
Anonymous
Every great time of peace has been accomplished through war. The fact is that tyrants spring up all over the world and murder and attack innocent people and America has consistently been there to defend the innocent. It is incredibly naive to think that "we can all just get along". It is importan...

[ more ]  [ reply ]
gravy train 2004-05-26
Anonymous (1 replies)
Hey, I have an idea: let's all get paranoid about things the government won't tell us. Ever heard of "Top Secret"? The government has to do some Top Secret things (i.e. development and testing of weapons, new planes, etc.) But I guess if all Americans turned anal, we could just have a government ...

[ more ]  [ reply ]
gravy train 2004-05-26
Anonymous (3 replies)
The point is that the sensor network isn't on government land... I can understand the need for secrecy, but what about wandering on public land that is perfectly legal and allowable for you to be on. just because its near the base. if it is just for security they can have them on the base... or if ...

[ more ]  [ reply ]
gravy train 2004-05-26
Joerg H. Arnu (Dreamland Resort Webmaster) (1 replies)
Good point. In fact Area 51 already has a buffer zone of 12 miles or more in each direction. And they keep withdrawing public land, to expand that buffer zone. The sensors we found were up to 8 miles OUTSIDE that buffer zone, on public land.

BTW: You are right on. I understand the sensors are als...

[ more ]  [ reply ]
Public lands?!? 2004-05-27
Anonymous (1 replies)
You guys talk about "public land" as if you cannot be arrested for trespassing thereon, if the government chooses to do so. Public land is owned by the government, be it municipal, country, state or federal.

The White House is "The People's House" but you will be busted if you hop the fence and ...

[ more ]  [ reply ]
Public lands?!? 2004-05-27
Anonymous
Replying to an earlier poster on this line, he brought up monitoring neighbouring countries.

Uh, EVERY country does it. Its done from international waters, through embassys and via journalists.

I understand these guys were probably a pair of geeks who found a new toy, but when you start taking...

[ more ]  [ reply ]
Annex more land? Oh yea, you'd be OK with that. 2004-05-27
Anonymous
Oh good grief...

>if it is just for security they can have them on the base... or if they're that paranoid that just getting CLOSE to the base is a risk, annex a mile in every direction, put up an electric razorwired fence, and put sensors along the fence so you can see people who are wandering a...

[ more ]  [ reply ]
gravy train 2004-06-02
Anonymous
Ok, I have to chime in here. I have enjoyed reading up on both sides of the argument - interesting arguments in both directions. Here is my personal opinion...

You trip over an antenna sticking out of the ground, reason to be curious - cautiously curious. I'm not sure I would have dug it up, b...

[ more ]  [ reply ]
Area 51 hackers dig up trouble 2004-05-26
Max (1 replies)
Yeah, great, the dude dug up government property. You dont see people opening up traffic lights and analyzing them and then putting them back and expecting to go unpunished. EVERYONE already knows that the government does alot of fishy stuff at area 51. It is common knowledge. NO ONE is going to fin...

[ more ]  [ reply ]
Area 51 hackers dig up trouble 2004-05-27
Anonymous
ah, "just dont spend too many of my tax dollars on it, unless it is going to HELP me in some way, okay?"

Uh huh. I worked in a place that did spy sattelites, held a clearance. I remember going through an area they had cleared out all the classified stuff from, helping a friend make room for his...

[ more ]  [ reply ]
Area 51 hackers dig up trouble 2004-05-26
Anonymous (1 replies)
A year without disturbing hidden sensors?

Essentially they've banned him Area 51 for a year.

"He's spending a year dead for tax reasons."

-- Douglas Adams...

[ more ]  [ reply ]
Re: Area 51 hackers dig up trouble 2005-07-17
Anonymous
they also banned him in order to have a year to

put some distance against these guys and their

hacking attempts.in modern technology it is

essebtial that you stay one step ahead of

hackers which is exactly what aarnu and clark are,nothing more and nothing less....

[ more ]  [ reply ]
Area 51 hackers dig up trouble 2004-05-26
Anonymous
Yes, I'm sure that laws were broken, like the one about the FBI spying on US citizens. It is public land after all and no one is allowed to leave junk out in the wilderness....

[ more ]  [ reply ]
Area 51 hackers dig up trouble 2004-05-26
John (1 replies)
What the hell kind of idiot goes to a top secret government "area", digs up surveillance devices buried underground, and then puts detailed information about said devices on his web site?

Lock this guy up for the rest of his life. Anyone this stupid doesn't deserve to be walking around with the ...

[ more ]  [ reply ]
Area 51 hackers dig up trouble 2004-06-01
Anonymous
I agree, we should all always have 100% total faith in our govt and any actions they choose to conduct. Doesn't matter where when or under what circumstances. They should alwyas be given complete trust and a 'blanket pass' to do anything they tell us is in the national interest. Next thing they w...

[ more ]  [ reply ]
Area 51 hackers dig up trouble 2004-05-26
Anonymous (1 replies)
Nazi Fascism started just the same way. The "govt" scaring the hell out of it's people to turn them into xenophobic, nationistic drones. Then implementing laws that take away their fundamental rights as free citizens right under their noses with the auspices of "national security".

George Bush an...

[ more ]  [ reply ]
Hee hee hee. 2004-05-27
Anonymous
> Nazi Fascism started just the same way.

Arresting people for digging up sensors?

> George Bush and his entourage are no

> different than Hitler and the SS.

Give or take 20 million dead.

> Instead of being a crime to turn these

> up/off, it SHOULD be a crime to spy and

> collect d...

[ more ]  [ reply ]
Area 51 hackers dig up trouble 2004-05-26
Anonymous Coward
Yes, GOD BLESS AMERICA and THE ARMY PROTECTING IT... To help tortoure civilist iraqi, for example, right?...

[ more ]  [ reply ]
Area 51 hackers dig up trouble 2004-05-26
Anonymous
I think the main issue here is trust. Area 51 wouldn't bother people so much if they felt like they could trust the government. The government, and especially the military, have a history of lies and deception.

There's another "secret" facility in northern Nevada. Heard that it goes for miles...

[ more ]  [ reply ]
sensors were on public land 2004-05-26
Anonymous (3 replies)
The main issue many people have is that the sensors are on public land. Their idea is that the government has every right to monitor the perimeter of the base, however they feel the govt has no right to track what is going on OUTSIDE the perimeter, on public land.

Can you legally play with gov't ...

[ more ]  [ reply ]
a thougtful replie to: sensors were on public land 2004-05-26
Anonymous? (1 replies)
does the car watch you while you walk past?

did not think so.

yes it is illeagal to open up traffic lights and examine them but they have a stated purpose: namley to control traffic.

do the sensor have a stated purpose? no

can I put sensors on public land without letting people know with we...

[ more ]  [ reply ]
a thougtful replie to: sensors were on public land 2004-05-27
Anonymous (1 replies)
> yes it is illeagal to open up traffic lights and examine them but they have a stated purpose: namley to control traffic.

Umm, that isn't why it's illegal. It''s illegal because:

a) it's not your stuff; and

b) additionally, in this special case, it's also public safety equipment which has ad...

[ more ]  [ reply ]
Re: a thougtful replie to: sensors were on public land 2007-05-04
Anonymous
Thank you!!!!! Too many people are comparing apples to oranges to make their point. When you drive straight up to the boundary and visit the "Deadly Force Authorized" sign...you will be watched but not bothered..as long as you don't walk off with the sign or anything else that does not belong to y...

[ more ]  [ reply ]
sensors were on public land 2004-05-26
Anonymous (1 replies)
But there is a difference between a fellow citizen's property and the property of those enlisted to serve the citizens. In this country, the government serves at the pleasure of the governed.

Of course it's not legal to mess around with someone else's car "on public land." A fellow citizen is not...

[ more ]  [ reply ]
sensors were on public land 2004-05-28
TellNoLies (at) aol (dot) com [email concealed]
Everyone has their own opinion on this, and here is a bit of mine.

Once uncovered and it was clearly obvious by the markings that the boxes were Govt. property they should not have been tampered with or opened.

If the boxes are truly on public land than they are for public knowledge, legally obta...

[ more ]  [ reply ]
sensors were on public land 2004-05-26
Anonymous (3 replies)
Saving one thing, in your example people would be digging around in private property. One person?s belongings.

In this case it was government property ( not private, Government and as the government is meant to represent the people it governs, property of those people )

No government has the r...

[ more ]  [ reply ]
Rubbish on public lands 2004-05-27
Anonymous (2 replies)
i wonder, if i had a whole bunch of radio transmitters and started placing them in my local national park, what would happen. i would suspect that they would be thrown away as litter, but what legal recourse would i have? None? what distinguishes my rubbish from the government's rubbish? if i remove...

[ more ]  [ reply ]
Rubbish on public lands 2004-05-27
Anonymous (1 replies)
If something doesn't belong to you, you should leave it alone. Didn't your mother teach you that? Have you no idea about right and wrong? If it doesn't have your name on it, just simply leave it alone and go on with your life, and forget about it....

[ more ]  [ reply ]
Re: Rubbish on public lands 2009-05-08
Anonymous
ok so since my bed, my tv, my clothes don't have my name on them then I can't touch them?! Shit! Better get my sharpie....

[ more ]  [ reply ]
Rubbish on public lands 2004-05-27
Anonymous
> i wonder, if i had a whole bunch of radio transmitters ... thrown away as litter, but what legal recourse would i have? None?

If you caught the person doing it, you could prosecute them for theft, at a minimum.

> what distinguishes my rubbish from the government's rubbish?

Security alarm...

[ more ]  [ reply ]
I always feel like somebody's watching me... 2004-05-27
Anonymous (1 replies)
> No government has the right to clandestinely

> monitor the people under their rule.

Exactly how does a motion sensor constitute "unreasonable search and seizure"? The next time you drive (past photo radar van) to get gas (under survellience camera) and stop at a traffic light (survellience c...

[ more ]  [ reply ]
Re: I always feel like somebody's watching me... 2005-07-17
Anonymous
when im in the shower im afraid to wash my hair......

[ more ]  [ reply ]
sensors were on public land 2004-05-27
Anonymous
> No government has the right to clandestinely monitor the people under their rule. Some pretend to, some claim to, But none actually posses it as a fundamental right

You're a little mixed up there. People have rights. Governments don't have rights, they have Sovereign Power which is *abridged* ...

[ more ]  [ reply ]
Area 51 hackers dig up trouble 2004-05-26
Commendante Bongo
My connection who used to work security there had this to say:

"Sometimes the sensors are ravaged by badgers who have a yen for the

cable insulation. They will tear open the wooden boxes and yank out the

plastic case and cables. Generally, the antennae is about 15 feet from the

sensors. A d...

[ more ]  [ reply ]
Expectation of Privacy on public land 2004-05-26
Anonymous (1 replies)
Out of curiousity is there any expectation of privacy on public land? For example what would the issues have been if this were a hidden camera? If I understand this correctly it would actually be less envasive as it is only a montion sensor and does not capture images....

[ more ]  [ reply ]
Expectation of Privacy on public land 2004-05-27
Anonymous
> Out of curiousity is there any expectation of privacy on public land?

Of your body (i.e under your clothes), yes. Of your personal effects - yes, to a certain degree, but with lots of caveats. But of your presence in that place? Absolutely not. That would be utterly absurd. What are you going t...

[ more ]  [ reply ]
Area 51 hackers dig up trouble 2004-05-26
Anonymous
you fools are looking in the wrong place! area 52 is your place....

[ more ]  [ reply ]
Did ya think 2004-05-26
Anonymous (2 replies)
Did anyone except me wonder how good these things actually work after reading this? I mean, these guys were able to go out there, dig them up, take them apart, put them back together and rebury them. Wouldn't that set them off? They are obviously monitoring something, so what happens when one goes o...

[ more ]  [ reply ]
re: Did ya think 2004-05-27
Anonymous
The thing is, these sensors are on public land. The public (you, me, heck *anyone*) has every right to be on that land. When it's public land, people should be able to visit it without being harassed by members of the military who feel that you are "too close" to a military base that doesn't offic...

[ more ]  [ reply ]
Did ya think 2004-05-27
Anonymous
> Why weren't the MPs from the base stomping the crap outta these guys when they were messing with them?

Because MPs can't arrest civilians on non-military land in peacetime. Instead, they called the FBI, who did arrest them.

In one of Arnu's posts, he says that the MPs came out to see what t...

[ more ]  [ reply ]
Area 51 hackers dig up trouble 2004-05-26
Chris
The device has an attenna that appears to

be a blade of grass thus making it hard to

find which of course is above ground level.

If it becomes broken off or loses it abilities of operation does it also cause the GPS that is within the devise to become inoperative?

If so it just may still be ...

[ more ]  [ reply ]
Thank you Mr. Arnu and Mr. Clark 2004-05-27
Charles LaRou
I would like to thank both gentlemen for their courage. They knew the government would poke back with a big stick when they exposed the inappropriate tracking on public land. Yet, they still researched and brought it to the public's attention. Now let's talk about that big stick.... The government u...

[ more ]  [ reply ]
Area 51 hackers dig up trouble 2004-05-27
Starrider
Most governments keep secrets for good or bad reasons. They have throughout most of history. Everybody has something to hide. There will also be those who will try to uncover the cloak of secrecy....

[ more ]  [ reply ]
In Regards to Area 51 Article 2004-05-27
unknown (3 replies)
There are a couple issues being discussed at the same time and many people are confusing them. If I understand it correctly people are discussing:

1. Government monitoring civilians.

2. Civilians monitoring government.

The government didn't over-react in their decisions to undergo an investig...

[ more ]  [ reply ]
In Regards to Area 51 Article 2004-05-27
Anonymous
If it's on public lands, then I see no reason as to why anyone couldn't, or shouldn't be allowed to investigate what they find. One surely can use an outhouse on public lands, picnic tables, or other items--this is just another item for use by the public. Hell, you should collect these things and ...

[ more ]  [ reply ]
In Regards to Area 51 Article 2004-05-27
Anonymous
To quote you...

"Go up to a bank and go around to every camera. Take it apart and see how it works. Map out the entire layout of the security system. Its public property its not illegal go ahead do it."

Since when? I'm pretty sure my bank is not public property.

Besides, the real issue (IM...

[ more ]  [ reply ]
In Regards to Area 51 Article 2004-05-28
Anonymous
The whole public vs. private land issue is ridiculous.WE pay for their bases and bombers with our tax dollars for god's sake!

I don't think many people like to be spied upon, even when it is under the guise of "national security".And what if they really are testing alien craft there? Wouldn't you w...

[ more ]  [ reply ]
Area 51 hackers dig up trouble 2004-05-27
Anonymous
So whats stopping someone from wandering around "collecting" these sensors and restuning them to the US Gov. in a big box saying, "I found all these laying around and thought I would return them to thier owners." :D

It would give some employee of the base that does not officially exist a job that...

[ more ]  [ reply ]
The Military is not obligated to tell you squat! 2004-05-27
Anonymous (1 replies)
Every one of you that complain about the secrecy of secure military instalations such as Area 51 are complete morons! Do you think the military has some sort of obligation to disclose, publicly, those very secrets that provide the defenses to protect you, your freedoms, and this country? Those of ...

[ more ]  [ reply ]
The Military is not obligated to tell you squat! 2004-05-28
Anonymous (1 replies)
I totally agree w/anon. about the military not being obligated to tell us anything that's secret! I hope and pray they've got devices that quietly x-ray suspected people walking in airports, wearing very full clothing: ie, potential suicide bombers. I lived in the middle east for 2 of the past 5 yea...

[ more ]  [ reply ]
the military is obligated to fix its problems, not shoot the whistleblower 2004-06-01
Anonymous Coward
What am *I* willing to do for my country? I'm willing try my best to expose the lies and misdeeds of my government. Just because the government keeps some things secret doesn't mean those things are necessarily in our interest. When the government's policies and actions are encouraging (or at best, ...

[ more ]  [ reply ]
Public Land vs. Expectation of Privacy 2004-05-27
Anonymous
Area 51 = Government Owned -> Restricted

Public Land = Still Gov. Owned! -> Unrestricted to the public.

It's not not against the law for the Gov. to put Gov. devices on Gov. owned land.

It's not an invasion of privacy to put passive motion sensors on land which you own.

Furthermore, ther...

[ more ]  [ reply ]
Government vs. the Military 2004-05-27
Anonymous Coward (2 replies)
Can anyone answer a simple question for me? Why does everyone here have the assumption that the Military and the Government are the same thing?

I'd like to see a postal worker walk onto a Restricted Military base, or a soldier walk into the back room of a post office. Now, these are just stupi...

[ more ]  [ reply ]
Government vs. the Military 2004-05-28
Anonymous
Agreed.

Anyone who has been in the military knows that nothing gets done without piles of paperwork, even if it is kept 'within the government'. Even trying to have a military electrician rewire a military lightswitch on his own base requires several forms. How many forms do you think would be ...

[ more ]  [ reply ]
Government vs. the Military 2004-05-29
Anonymous (1 replies)
Just curious....who owns the military? Is it the government which is congress and the executive branch. And doesn't the military act on behalf of the government? Just wondering if you had YOUR facts straight....

[ more ]  [ reply ]
Government vs. the Military 2004-06-01
Anonymous Coward
"Owns the Military" ? I think you need to rethink that one for a while.

But, just for the sake of argument, let's go with that one for a second and work with real companies to show you how ridiculous what you are saying is...

Yum! Restaurants International (earlier called Tricon International...

[ more ]  [ reply ]
Area 51 hackers dig up trouble 2004-05-28
Anonymous
What did the guy expect, a little trouble and he faids into the woodwork. Nothing new there, and nothing new in sensors, cameras, etc. watching over something as sensitive as a base where "secret tests" have been conducted for 50 years. Get a life and smell the flowers people - life is short - eve...

[ more ]  [ reply ]
Area 51 hackers dig up trouble 2004-05-28
borderkid
Coming into this rather late, but, here goes. The government can put sensors of any type on federal land. There are tons of government property that are not classed as public land. The actual owner is the US Bureau of Land Management and they can regulate the use of the land.

The sensors on the sou...

[ more ]  [ reply ]
The Right of Privacy 2004-05-29
Anonymous
In the constitution of the United States, the right to privacy is NOT listed. The Supreme Court said that under the 1st, 3rd, 4th, 9th, and 14th there is an EXPECTATION of privacy. However, the constitution does not say you have a right to privacy!!!!!!! Therefore it is up to the Supreme Court to sa...

[ more ]  [ reply ]
The amusing thing is . . . 2004-05-29
GreenFencer
The fact of the matter is this: If you are within any kind of distance of anything as high security as Area 51 you ARE being monitored. Public or Private property if we're really honest here. The details on the sensors that was divulged was irresponsible but irrelevant. Of course you are being mo...

[ more ]  [ reply ]
Area 51 2004-05-31
freedom of speech
I think that everybody has a cirtain degree to know what their tax money is bieng spent on and what is going on on their own door step it would be a diferent story if it was somone keeping infomation from the authoritys but on the other hand they do have some rights to seacrecy so i think a comprimi...

[ more ]  [ reply ]
Area 51 hackers dig up trouble 2004-06-01
Bean
This isn't really hacking...but it's interesting. He didn't break any law because those sesors are on public property. If I were him, I wouldn't keep quiet. I thought as Americans we are entitled to Life, Liberty, and the persuit of Happiness?...

[ more ]  [ reply ]
Area 51 hackers dig up trouble 2004-06-01
Anonymous
First of all, its funny how most everyone here, including myself are not willing to even put a handle (call sign) in the from subject.

Second:

We in the United States tend to think that the technological capabilities of our armed forces is so amazing. Amazing enough to let our minds wonder far f...

[ more ]  [ reply ]
more unseen than seen 2008-05-16
Anonymous
there is more to the area then seen on the surface.if someone interested in the'mystery" of area 51 should check out topography maps and geography and compare them, and no i do not work for them, just a curious person...

[ more ]  [ reply ]
Area 51 - Perhaps Not 2008-06-03
Anonymous
Area 51. A testing ground for the USAF or an intelligent operation on gathering intelligence?

This parcel of land has both confused and liberated our minds for countless years and more than likely, will do for many more. I say 'liberated' because of our deep desire to search, perhaps even know th...

[ more ]  [ reply ]




 

Privacy Statement
Copyright 2009, SecurityFocus