Stones, Fire and Water

Stones, Fire and Water
Tim Mullen, 2002-11-11

A nasty trade secret lawsuit displays the ugly side of the network security industry.

Stones, Fire and Water 2002-11-11
TL

I think some information security firms are having trouble
deciding whether they want to play FBI stool pidgeons, l33t
h4xx0rs or corporate bigwigs. Microsoft is not the only one
spreading FUD in order to squash the competition and win
juicy government contracts, it seems to be a standard M.O.
...

[ more ] [ reply ]

Well written 2002-11-11
Anonymous (1 replies)

I really liked this article, as I've been following the story from the beginning. It was nice to see that the security community won't stand for this type of crap lawsuit.

Also, one other thing: don't forget Queso for OS fingerprinting. I believe that's what nmap used in the first place.

Peace...

[ more ] [ reply ]

Well written 2002-11-11
Anonymous

Well said....

[ more ] [ reply ]

Stones, Fire and Water 2002-11-11
Anonymous (1 replies)

OS fingerprinting via tcp was not pioneered by Fyodor or Ofir Arkin. It was a widely known & commonly used technique long before it was implemented in nmap, even in the public domain....

[ more ] [ reply ]

Stones, Fire and Water 2002-11-12
Anonymous

But of course... the reference to Fyodor's and Ofir's work in this matter was because that was what Foundstone used as an inspiration....

[ more ] [ reply ]

Stones, Fire and Water 2002-11-12
GarageResearcher

I think you summarized the matter very well. Foundstone's tactics were to crush NT Objectives by making them run out of money in legal defenses. They knew they didnt have a case, but were out there just for bitterness that they couldnt keep their best brains working and making money for them. This w...

[ more ] [ reply ]

Axe 2 Grind? 2002-11-13
Anonymous

I was present when one of the Executive Mangagers of FoundStone was first told of the presentation made by JD. All he was told was that the way the information was displayed was very similiar to FoundScan and the first words out of his mouth were about "intellectual property" and lawsuits.

I had...

[ more ] [ reply ]

Stones, Fire and Water 2002-11-13
blacklight

Good shot, Tim!

As an aside, you do bring back a childhood memory: a driver ran right over a mildly inflated, fat dead rat as I was doing my pedestrian thing of gingerly passing by the critter, and peppered this country boy's pants with flying cubes of decomposing rat meat and gore. Needless to s...

[ more ] [ reply ]

Stones, Fire and Water 2002-11-14
TW

From someone that knows just about everyone involved in this thing, I have to say that I too am glad that JD is allowed to move forward. I new him before he went to Foundstone, I liked the work he (and others) did for Foundstone, and I like most of the Foundstone team that I have met. I.P. lawsuit...

[ more ] [ reply ]

Stones, Fire and Water 2002-11-14
Anonymous (1 replies)

Nothing like an impartial review by an executive of a company who probably competes with Foundstone.

Have you actually used the NT Objectives toolkit tools Tim? Probably not, just like you've never seen or used the Foundstone programs so how can you comment on what is or what isn't being stolen a...

[ more ] [ reply ]

Stones, Fire and Water 2002-11-15
Anonymous HoG'r! (1 replies)

I was wondering when you were going to pipe up, Stu! Or are you George? ...

[ more ] [ reply ]

Stones, Fire and Water 2002-11-17
Anonymous

Hehe, ur evil...except unfortunately the person was pretty much spot on - the NTOBjectives tools are very raw and unstable and the docs look like they were written by a dyslexic Russian! If these are the results of having extra development time available due to the restraining order then I'd hate to...

[ more ] [ reply ]

Stones, Fire and Water 2002-11-15
Anonymous (1 replies)

Maybe now NTO can sue Foundstone for the money lost in defending the bogus lawsuit. I have done comparisons between Foundstone tools and Nessus (which is free) and it beat the Foundstone tool every time. I have met Stuart a couple of times and let me say all respect I had for him is gone. He is (was...

[ more ] [ reply ]

Stones, Fire and Water 2002-11-16
Anonymous

Unless you had several thousand dollars to burn and/or you are a representative of some major corporation (and judging by your spelling and grammar I highly doubt this) I don't believe you had access to or are talking about the same major Foundstone product that this lawsuit was referring to.

I t...

[ more ] [ reply ]

Homeland Security? Or Big Brothers Eyes 2002-11-15
Anonymous

IT's amazing that people in the US aren't more atuned as to what the Govt is doing,they think when the Government comes up with Security that if they are coming up with it then it must be ok. The writers of the Constitution are spinning in there repectable graves where ever they lie.
For the ...

[ more ] [ reply ]

Talent flees Foundstone 2002-11-16
ItDoesn'tTakeAnIdiotToFigureOutTheWritingOnTheWall (1 replies)

Many of the best and brightest Foundstone employees have left the company recently, degrading customer trust along with the ability to deliver quality services. The day of reckoning by the investors can't be far off. Stu: Black doesn't look so fashionable when you're being escorted out of your off...

[ more ] [ reply ]

Talent flees Foundstone 2002-11-16
GarageResearcher

Oh dont worry about the investors finding out. Foundstone has an impressive array of "corporate spin doctors" who can make a tornado appear as a gentle sea breeze. They have also accumulated the legal expertise of a resident counsel and two big law firms to maintain their posture and reputation by t...

[ more ] [ reply ]

Stones, Fire and Water 2002-11-17
Psuedo-Anonymous Coward (1 replies)

I knew something was wrong at Foundstone when FPort was "updated" to work on Windows XP.

The readme for FPort 2.0
http://www.foundstone.com/knowledge/intrusion_detection.html

says fport supports Windows NT4, Windows 2000, and Windows XP.

While it is true FPort now works on XP, the latest rel...

[ more ] [ reply ]

Stones, Fire and Water 2002-11-18
Anonymous (2 replies)

From http://ntobjectives.com/images/JDGlaser_Declaration.pdf

"34. ...My last day at Foundstone was May 3, 2002. In fact, on that date, I "gave" a brand new software tool to Foundstone as a departing present. I am informed and believe that the software tool has been utilized by Foundstone to enhan...

[ more ] [ reply ]

Stones, Fire and Water 2002-11-19
CmdrTostada

Well, Dave Cole, Robin, Stu, George, or whoever you are from Foundstone (it is obvious from your reply)... why didnt you guys have the ability to fix up the code and clean it up?...

[ more ] [ reply ]

Stones, Fire and Water 2002-11-20
Psuedo-Anonymous Coward

Actually, the tool you are referring to was ScanLine (sl.exe)

...

[ more ] [ reply ]