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Media Gone Mad
Tim Mullen, 2003-02-24

Why last week's big Windows security hole is nothing more than technology press hot air.

Comments Mode:
Media Gone Mad 2003-02-24
Anonymous (1 replies)
i wish all security expert thinking like tim.
Thanks...

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Media Gone Mad 2003-02-27
Linux_Hawk
Are you Crazy?
I could agree with the Microsoft bashing, but they ask for it.
It was only Last year that Team MS stated that Linux was only a cancer and basically that they were the only choice for companies.
Their arrognance and "Rape the Economy" style of pricing scheme and trap the consumer at...

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I agree completely. 2003-02-24
Anonymous (4 replies)
What Tim is pointing out is something I have noticed for a LONG time. It seems some "security experts"; namely Linux buffs, are trying desperately to find something with W2K/XP to complain about and blow out of proportion... but that's OK - because anyone who admins a Windows box knows this is pure ...

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I agree completely. 2003-02-24
Anonymous
You mean like all those silly people who patched the MS SQL vuln right away, before a worm came along?
...

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Re: I agree completely. 2003-02-25
Anonymous (2 replies)
> What Tim is pointing out is something I have noticed for a LONG time.
> It seems some "security experts"; namely Linux buffs, are trying
> desperately to find something with W2K/XP to complain about and blow
> out of proportion...
sorry but "linux buffs" already know that you can mount...

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Re: I agree completely. 2003-02-25
Anonymous (1 replies)
"sorry but "linux buffs" already know that you can mount the disk and do whatever they want." - Yeah? And how exactly would you "mount" the disk? Physical access? hmm... I think I could do anything to a box when I have physical access to it. If you mean mount as in remotely mount, well then your tar...

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Re: Re: I agree completely. 2003-02-26
Anonymous
> "sorry but "linux buffs" already know that you can mount the disk and do whatever they want." - Yeah? And how exactly would
> you "mount" the disk? Physical access? hmm... I think I could do anything to a box when I have physical access to it. If
it might be my bad english but it seems that y...

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Re: I agree completely. 2003-02-25
Anonymous (2 replies)
"mount" is a *nix term for mapping, and no you cannot just "map" a windows box that has proper policies configured. I would like you to try and "mount" my box, you would be blocked via ipsec or what you would call "ip tables" right away, that is assuming you even passed the authentication layer.
...

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Re: I agree completely, or NOT 2003-02-26
Anonymous (2 replies)
Mount is NOT a Unix term for drive mapping!
You are confusing windows network access with Unix physical access through the kernel. NO amount of windows encryption or mystical voodoo will secure a drive on a machine that has been booted to linux or unix.
You may be able to keep them out via ips...

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Re: I agree completely, or NOT 2003-02-27
Anonymous
I dont' know quite where you are coming with this in saying that no amount of Windows encryption will be useful. True, I would never say that any encryption is foolproof, but I challenge anyone with a few million spare computer-hours to try to break Windows EFS on even a single box.

If my secret...

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Re: I agree completely, or NOT 2003-02-27
Eric Grabowski (eric@mazenet.com) (1 replies)
ANY box, whether it run windows, Linux, a flavor of UNIX, the mac OS or Amiga DOS is vunerable when someone has physical access to it. Period. Its already proven that given enough time and CPU cycles any encryption can be hacked, and if I can walk out the door with your sys drive I have all the time...

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Re: I agree completely, or NOT 2003-02-27
Anonymous
a non-shadowed password file with MD5 encryption and regular cracklib-checking : is this a "horrible hole" according to you ?

...

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Re: I agree completely. 2003-02-26
Seb (1 replies)
I think you missed the point. The previous poster was talking about how with him having PHYSICAL access to YOUR server, he can boot up using a linux floppy or cdrom and have complete access to your files. Infact he could even reset the Administrator password on your server to something he wants an...

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Re: I agree completely. - thank you 2003-02-28
Anonymous (1 replies)
> I think you missed the point. The previous poster was talking about
> how with him having PHYSICAL access to YOUR server
thanks - finally someone understood what i was talking about.
now as an excercise please count the number of posts from the
first 'Re: I agree completely' to the first p...

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Re: I agree completely. - thank you 2003-03-02
Anonymous
If the comments I've read so far weren't so scary in their implications, they'd be funny.

Any 'Security Professional' worth his/her own s**t would tell you that you must have 'Defense in Depth'. If you forget or neglect any layer then you leave yourself vulnerable. You have to guard the network...

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I agree completely. 2003-02-25
Anonymous (1 replies)
Actually, anyone who knows Windows and knows security laughs, but not because it is silly. They laugh because Windows has a poor security design, and Microsoft forces underskilled administrators onto the market as "experts". The MCSE isn't worth the cost of the certificate.

While this bug is no...

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I agree completely - a little vauge, let's hear your arguments.... 2003-02-25
Anonymous (3 replies)
I'm interested in your comment that Windows (95,98,NT,2K?) has poor security design. I have a few questions for you:

1. What specific version are you talking about?
2. If you are talking about W2K/XP, I would be very interested if you could define exactly what you mean by "poor design". What can...

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I agree completely - a little vauge, let's hear your arguments.... 2003-02-26
Anonymous (1 replies)
Sorry, I am not the OP, but...

1. What specific version are you talking about?

Any

2. If you are talking about W2K/XP, I would be very interested if you could define exactly what you mean by "poor design". What can you do in Linux that cannot be done in 2K through the use of Active Director...

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I agree completely - your reply. 2003-02-28
Anonymous
Oh man... see, I didn't want to have to do this... but you forced me to.

"- One word--virii" - One reply - MS makes up most of the desktop environment out there, it is only logical to assume that "virii" would spread fast. By the way, are you not aware of the Linux viruses out there? I would also...

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I agree completely - a little vauge, let's hear your arguments.... 2003-02-26
Anonymous (1 replies)
checkout my reply about KNOPPPIX... All versions of windows!
If I have unsupervised physical access, I have your data! and you can't stop me, or even tell I was there!...

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I agree completely - a little vauge, let's hear your arguments.... 2003-02-27
Anonymous
It's the same with Linux. You have physical access to the box? Boot up in single user mode and change the root password. Voila! Full, ROOT access to the box!

(before you flame, I use both Linux and Windows. Each our better at some things than the other. I'm not a zealot of either OS. I use whiche...

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I agree completely - a little vauge, let's hear your arguments.... 2003-02-26
Anonymous
Ok, I'll join the discussion. If you want to harden a system you usually remove all unnecessary binaries and make directories with binaries immutable, so that you can't add new binaries or remove them (I usually do this by enabling the read-only jumper on SCSI disks, because it's hard to circumvent....

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I agree completely. 2003-02-26
Anonymous
You start off well, the it goes down hill.

From where did you make the assumption that "linux buffs" are to blame?...

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Media Gone Mad 2003-02-24
Anonymous (1 replies)
Perhaps the "guest" administrator account they are writing about is infact the very same account that is used in Safe Mode. By default, DELL (in the least) distro of Windows XP will grant full admin in Safe Mode....

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Media Gone Mad 2003-02-24
Anonymous (1 replies)
"distro"? This is windows we are talking about here and no, it won't.

You are assuming the user has no login procedure, that would require them to configure that as such. All users, safe mode or not, still have to log in - and their permissions remain intact....

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Media Gone Mad 2003-02-26
Anonymous
Well, it works on my computer (before I disabled it) and my roommates' Windows XP computers, so yeah this is an issue.

Whether or not something is a distr(ibution) is a matter of personal preference. Now you know mine. ^_^ There's nothing sacred about colloquialisms, by definition....

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For once I agree with you. 2003-02-24
Anonymous
There isn't an operating system made that's secure from someone with physical access to the hardware.
...

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at least someone sees sense 2003-02-24
ravidew (1 replies)
The RC is a console application. What makes this "flaw" so different from using a customized bootdisk, or even removing the hard disk and mounting it in Linux? Another Windows bug. Damn....

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at least someone sees sense 2003-02-25
RobJ
It is not a flaw!...

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Media Gone Mad 2003-02-24
Anonymous
Thats what I said too.
...

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Bravo! 2003-02-24
Keydet89@yahoo.com
It's about frickin' time!

How much longer do we have to go on getting the kind of media drivel that quotes MS-bashers as "security experts"? Better yet, can we just do away w/ all of these media types? For instance, if you're using Win9x/ME, or you aren't able to log into NT (or any of it's d...

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Media Gone Mad or not? 2003-02-24
Anonymous
In a way, I have to agree -- this kind of problem is common,
and has been around longer than the PC. However, we've all
known that things like password-protecting the BIOS are
almost worthless, since opening the case and fiddling the
jumpers is usually quite easy. One can't defeat password
pr...

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If anyone thinks this is some new threat, then I have a bridge in Brooklyn for sale for you 2003-02-24
3n0k (2 replies)
The concept of circumventing an OS'es security by booting another OS from a different device i.e. a bootable floppy disk has been around for a long time. There are numerous utilities for dumping password hashes from the registry and changing passwords for accounts off-line. I can't see how any "secu...

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Re: If anyone thinks this is some new threat, then I have a bridge in Brooklyn for sale for you 2003-02-26
Anonymous
> The concept of circumventing an OS'es security by booting another OS from a different device i.e. a bootable floppy disk
> has been around for a long time. There are numerous utilities for dumping password hashes from the registry and changing
> passwords for accounts off-line. I can't se...

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If anyone thinks this is some new threat, then I have a bridge in Brooklyn for sale for you 2003-02-26
Anonymous
If your taking this that way then this is a new threat, I find it funny how everyone refer to the boot floppy thing because booting from floppy is very easy to block... I assume that every security professional, and most home user(especially Mac user) know that you can remove the floppy drive...
T...

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Norteamericano Gone Mad 2003-02-25
John Comeau http://risp.org/members/jcomeau (1 replies)
What you said makes sense, but you could have left out the slur. "Crazed soccer fans" would have done better; no nation has a monopoly on violence at sports arenas. Besides, "Colombian" is spelled with an 'o' not a 'u' in the second syllable.

I'm guilty of similar behavior now and then too, but a...

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Norteamericano Gone Mad 2003-02-25
Gavin
I think he was talking about the crazed fans of the Columbus Crew, the Major League Soccer team of Columbus, Ohio and winners of the U.S. Open Cup in 2002. Their web site runs on IIS, and they'd be pretty annoyed if it got hacked....

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Media Gone Mad 2003-02-25
Anonymous (4 replies)
I'm glad someone finally said it. I bet the Register and Slashdot don't pick up Tim's comments and report them either. Its a shame you can't the whole story any more on the "supposed" news sites....

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Media Gone Mad 2003-02-25
Anonymous (1 replies)
Hehe - yeah, but considering TheRegister's reader base, they would most likely loose readers if they posted Tim's article. God forbid they know the truth. ;)...

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Media Gone Mad 2003-02-26
Anonymous (1 replies)
Hehe - It's a good thing smart folks like you don't read the Register. Otherwise, others couldn't chuckle at the irony of your comment. The Reg did write about this glitch, in their usual, humorous way. The article pretty much went out of it's way to indicate that this was really not the major se...

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Media Gone Mad 2003-02-27
Anonymous (1 replies)
Actually I DO read the Register. They posted some time afterwards - as did Slashdot.

Too bad they had to be shamed into it.

Maybe next time they won't be so quick to cry wolf.
...

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Media Gone Mad 2003-02-27
Anonymous
The Register posted their article on February 16th.
10 days before this article.
I don't understand how you can argue they were shamed into writing about it by an article that came out 10 days later....

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Media Gone Mad 2003-02-26
Anonymous
I don't think The Register reported the hole he's talking about, either, so I don't think they're under any obligation to publish this story as a "correction".
...

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Wrong on at least one count 2003-02-26
Anonymous
Slashdot has a front-page story about this commentary....

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Media Gone Mad 2003-02-26
Anonymous
it IS on slashdot... ...

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Use this event to sort wheat from chaff 2003-02-25
Paul S. Nofs
It is quite clear who provides valid and verifiable security information and who is likely to jump of the cliff of false conclusions.

...

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Media Gone Mad 2003-02-25
Anonymous
Wasn't it the Linux/OSS/GNU crowd that was freaking out over this the most? If so, I don't know why, since this "feature/bug/exploit" has existed on UNIX, Linux, and all sorts of other OSes since the beginning of time. If nothing else this is certainly not new nor newsworthy....

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WRONG! 2003-02-26
Charles Hill (9 replies)
Actually, it is CRITICAL in one aspect.

If Avaya's security consultant Ken Pfeil is correct when he said:

"If the system is a member of a workgroup and not a domain, you can just change the user's password that the file was encrypted under," Pfeil said. "Then you can log on as that user havin...

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WRONG! 2003-02-26
Anonymous
That is plain wrong. It was true for W2K - you could get access to EFS without password. It is not true for XP. Just try resetting user password, and the message you get will explain you what why you will lose access to your EFS files....

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WRONG! 2003-02-26
Anonymous
Try to change your password under XP using a boot disk and see if you can still open your encrypted document...

WARNING: DO NOT DO THIS ON A LAPTOP WICH HAVE ANY IMPORTANT ENCRYPTED FILE YOU MIGHT WANT TO KEEP......

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THANK YOU! 2003-02-26
Anonymous
Excellent information in your response. Makes me wonder if anybody at Symantec...errr Security Focus put this issue through the wringer.


...

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WRONG!....err...not 2003-02-26
Anonymous
>Actually, it is CRITICAL in one aspect. If Avaya's security consultant Ken Pfeil is correct when he said:

"If the system is a member of a workgroup and not a domain, you can just change the user's password that the file was encrypted under," Pfeil said. "Then you can log on as that user having a...

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WRONG! 2003-02-26
Ralf (1 replies)
If you have a laptop and didn't even bother setting up a bios password, then you're really lame, why use a Windows login password in the first place, let's happily use TweakUI to autoboot the admin account or write the password on a post-it!

Then how easy one can override the bios password is yet...

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WRONG! 2003-02-27
Anonymous
until someone removes the hard drive and plugs it into a different box without BIOS protection...

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re: WRONG! 2003-02-26
Anonymous
MSKB: EFS, Credentials, and Private Keys from Certificates Are Unavailable After a Password Is Reset
[http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;290
260]

That MSKB article refers to XP and workgroups....

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WRONG! 2003-02-26
jonsteph (1 replies)
Problem is, we're talking about Windows XP, so Mr. Pfeil is wrong.

Assuming one can get Admin access to the installed OS (re-installing OS destroys access to EFS-protected files), resetting the password on WinXP in a Workgroup (as opposed to changing it) destroys access to DPAPI-protected keys, a...

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WRONG! 2003-02-27
Anonymous
4 No passwords on removable devices.

Well, almost true. A smartcard that stores the private key and uses a pin is portable. Obviously not what you were thinking about, but the effect is the same.

Warper
...

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WRONG! 2003-02-27
Anonymous

Linux, Windows, OS-X insecure!!! OS/390 secure and
it rocks. RACF rocks!...

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WRONG! 2003-02-28
Anonymous
Simple copying of files is adequite to overcome
XP security. The trick is to copy cmd.exe
over login.scr....

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Media Gone Mad 2003-02-26
Jimmy
A very well written piece. MS bashing seems to be a fad in our community. Its high time us security professionals took a very responsible view of our industry and not succumb to sensationalism.
Regards,
Jimmy
...

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Media Gone Mad 2003-02-26
Anonymous
Yes, yes, and yes again! Hits the nail right on the head. We netadmins have enough heachaches w/o having to chase phantoms like this....

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Linux "boot" floppy? Wow, I'm impressed. 2003-02-26
TJ Miller jr (23 replies)
"Or even better, I'd just whip out my Linux boot floppy, change the administrator password and go nuts."

Huh? Since when can you change the Windows "Administrator" Password with a Linux, err, "boot" floppy (esp. if the partition is formatted in NTFS)? I for one never knew LILO to be such a capabl...

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Linux "boot" floppy? Wow, I'm impressed. 2003-02-26
Anonymous (1 replies)
"Huh? Since when can you change the Windows "Administrator" Password with a Linux, err, "boot" floppy"

Might want to do some digging before you besmirch a real security professional. Go here:

http://home.eunet.no/~pnordahl/ntpasswd/bootdisk.html

to get a copy of the "Offline NT Password & ...

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Linux "boot" floppy? Wow, I'm impressed. 2003-02-27
Anonymous
You're missing his point. That's not a "Linux boot floppy"....

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Linux "boot" floppy? Wow, I'm impressed. 2003-02-26
Jason Zandri
Yep, Linux boot floppy for one, there are many others too.

http://www.ntsecurity.net/Articles/Index.cfm?ArticleID=9527

NTFSBoot disk quickly comes to mind as well.

If I can boot the system locally because I have physical access, I OWN the system, it is not yours any more it's mine....

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Linux "boot" floppy? Wow, I'm impressed. 2003-02-26
Tiamat
Look it up fool. Type "linux boot floppy Win2K WinXP" into Google and see how many 100s of hits you get. There are at least 3 variations on this that I know of, and it's works. It'll mount a NTFS drive AND allow you to overwrite any user or admin password with whatever you want. I've used it to reco...

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Linux "boot" floppy? Wow, I'm impressed. 2003-02-26
Anonymous
Since a while ago... its an image floating around the interweb which allows you to set a new Administrator password...

Just because _you_ haven't heard of it, doesn't make it non-existant :)...

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Linux "boot" floppy? Wow, I'm impressed. 2003-02-26
Anonymous
Check out this URL.

http://home.eunet.no/~pnordahl/ntpasswd/bootdisk.html

We have used this many times when "admins" forget their administrator password....

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Linux "boot" floppy? Wow, I'm impressed. 2003-02-26
mitch silver
I believe this was a simplified reference to the ability to grain root access to linux machines if you have physical access..

-Mitch...

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Linux "boot" floppy? Wow, I'm impressed. 2003-02-26
Anonymous
Right. exactly. there's no such thing. the more people ignorant of this the better....

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Linux "boot" floppy? Wow, I'm impressed. 2003-02-26
Anonymous
Yes there is a boot floppy to change a 2k adminster password. I have used it myself. Why not take 5 seconds to do a google search?...

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Linux "boot" floppy? Wow, I'm impressed. 2003-02-26
Anonymous
Google -> NT password Recovery Floppy. ...

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Actually, fellow, there -is- one. 2003-02-26
Anonymous
Pump "administrator password linux boot floppy Windows"
(without quotes) into Google, and see how many there are. I use it all the time to override admin passwords during acquisitions....

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Linux "boot" floppy? Wow, I'm impressed. 2003-02-26
jasen
Actually, yes there is a Linux bootable floppy image that loads a simple kernel and then runs a program that finds the SAM and lets you change the admin password. It's been around for quite a while now....

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Linux "boot" floppy? Wow, I'm impressed. 2003-02-26
Anonymous
http://home.eunet.no/~pnordahl/ntpasswd/...

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Linux "boot" floppy? Wow, I'm impressed. 2003-02-26
Anonymous
We just changed the password using a linux boot floppy and some applications built on linux to do this about 3 months ago. Forget the name of the software but it can be done some what easily....

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Linux "boot" floppy? Wow, I'm impressed. 2003-02-26
Anonymous
I used a single Linux disk with it's associated utilities to reset the administrator password on a Win2K machine last week. It took less than 5 minutes to do, and the disk prompted you for each and every step to take. *I* thought this was pretty impressive, as did the end user that got back into hi...

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Linux "boot" floppy? Wow, I'm impressed. 2003-02-26
Andrew
http://home.eunet.no/~pnordahl/ntpasswd/ is the kind of linux boot floppy he is referring to. There are quite a few out there with similar functionality....

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You are Just giving window system more credit than it should have 2003-02-26
Anonymous
It is a bit of a joke Windows NT/2000/XP is not that well NTFS there are tools to read and write NT/2000/XP from linux there is a catch of course but can be got around with a linux basic full drive backup.

Basicly you play a bit of luck. But it is lot less trouble if using windows NT just to got...

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Linux "boot" floppy? Wow, I'm impressed. 2003-02-26
Anonymous
Why would I turn on networking?
Why not copy the files to a disk and work on the minor encryption at home? If I opened a connection, I would leave tracks in the firewall log ( assuming they have a firewall)

If I have access to the server, then the chances are the admins are too clueless to set ...

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Linux "boot" floppy? Wow, I'm impressed. 2003-02-26
Anonymous
No, really. It's a floppy that runs a stripped Linux, and lets you poke all kinds of things. Think generic recovery console. I carry one with me all the time, and have used it on several occasions....

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Linux "boot" floppy? Wow, I'm impressed. 2003-02-26
Anonymous
It's a nifty little boot disk...

http://home.eunet.no/~pnordahl/ntpasswd/

-slacker...

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Linux "boot" floppy? Wow, I'm impressed. 2003-02-26
Daniel Franklin
Yes, indeed all you need is this Linux boot floppy:

http://home.eunet.no/~pnordahl/ntpasswd/bootdisk.html

Works great, NT, 2K, XP.

- Daniel...

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Linux "boot" floppy? Wow, I'm impressed. 2003-02-26
Anonymous (2 replies)
I don't see what this person is arguing with. He questions using a linux boot floppy, and then points out how it's possible. Linux floppy with NTFS, find the SAM, change the passwords... pretty damned easy....

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Linux "boot" floppy? Wow, I'm impressed. 2003-02-27
Anonymous
Is there a reason that the same answer had to be posted 15 times? Do you guys bother reading the answers already given before posting? Sheesh....

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Linux "boot" floppy? - SMARTEN UP! 2003-02-27
Anonymous
LMFAO, yeah, and while I'm at it why don't I just pick the machine up and carry it home with me...

THERE IS ZERO, NO, NADA SECURITY WHEN YOU HAVE PHYSICAL ACCESS TO *ANY* BOX....

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I just love flamers who don't read the whole letter (grin) 2003-02-27
TJ Miller jr (1 replies)
Yes, campers - a MODIFIED floppy can do these wonders (notice how I mention Trinux?) OTOH, a standard Linux boot floppy does none of this, something everyone failed to recognize.

For the kinder folk, I thank you for your reasoned response.

For all those flamers and the s00p4r-l33t self-assure...

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I just love flamers who don't read the whole letter (frown) 2003-03-01
Anonymous
So, your entire reason for posting is because he said "Linux boot floopy" rather than "Modified boot disk that loads Linux and then lets you do other things"? If a disk boots Linux, it is a Linux Boot Disk. He didn't say "The Linux boot disk that ships with the default installation of Linux." It ...

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Media did not gone mad, Linux "boot" floppy, Microsoft are bad guys, and other urban legends 2003-03-06
Amorphous
Yep. Run the password cracker of your choice - any OS, any encryption, change what you need (depending on the level of oyur knowledge, for sure), restore the logs and the passwords, and put the poor doctored bastard back to the production environment. BTW, not just *n*x boot floppy - DOS with DOS2NT...

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Columnist Gone Mad 2003-02-26
Anonymous (2 replies)
Here's the lastest "headline" under "vulnerabilities" at Security Focus, as of Feb 26:
http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/6914

The "problem" describes how the "Eject" utility allows a local user to possibly exploit a file!!! Oh no!!! A malicious local user can exploit a document !!!

Sheesh. ...

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Columnist Gone Mad 2003-02-27
Anonymous
Actually, its completely different.

The issue described in the eject article allows a user (could be remote) to gather information for mounting an attack.

The much hyped WinXP "issue" is by design, if you have physical access to the box, you can do whatever the hell you like, someone booting a...

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Think Kiosks or Remote Terminal User... 2003-02-27
Frank
First, the eject vulnerability was sent into the database by the author himself.

Second, a software application vulnerability is significantly different than a physical access vulnerability.

If I have a locked down Kiosks, or a remote user is in my machine via Terminal Services with no access...

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Media Gone Mad 2003-02-26
Anonymous
If I can gain access to the hardware and do this, then why can't a put a back door/keylogger/whatever onto the XP machine?
As anybody who has done actual security work would know, the threat of someone walking of with the hardware is much less of an issue compared to someone constantly monitoring y...

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My Experience with The Linux 2003-02-26
Egg Troll (14 replies)
I work as a consultant for several fortune 500 companies, and I think I can shed a little light on the climate of the open source community at the moment. I believe that part of the reason that open source based startups are failing left and right is not an issue of marketing as it's commonly believ...

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re: My Experience with The Linux 2003-02-26
Stonewolf
Unfortunately you point out in your own message why it didn?t work. You are already biased against Linux or any other open source solution. Read your post, use VB because it?s just at good. Sure, for specific apps, portability is not one of them.

I have also consulted for Fortune 500 companies,...

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My Experience with The Linux 2003-02-26
Anonymous
You suck, Troll

Call IBM and get a list of some of their Linux customers. The truth is out there.

Better yet, just whip out a trusty clue bat and knock yourself silly.
...

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My Experience with The Linux 2003-02-26
Anonymous
Hmm. A network/whatever guru not seeing what Linux can do?
I wonder if all the guys are Sun/IBM are dorks! :-)
There are things that *nix stand for. If you aren't willing to
spend enough time actually looking through how to
fix the problem. Doh!
...

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My Experience with The Linux 2003-02-27
Anonymous
I sould not feed this self proclaimed troll, but I will give him a small bisquit

Just what distro of linux is the shareware version??

The fact that you chose to program in VB and do not have a clue about C is probable the reason the Linux " shareware" failed. " I don't believe in C programmin...

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Feed the troll 2003-02-27
Anonymous
Please!...

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Re: My Experience with The Linux 2003-02-27
Anonymous
It's obvious you're a troll trying to provoke a response, so I'll be brief and respond only for the benefit of those who aren't as technically inclined and might not notice.

> we wanted to integrate the shareware version of Linux

There is no such thing as a shareware version of Linux. 'Freewar...

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My Experience with The Linux 2003-02-27
Anonymous
Good one! You had me until here:

"I consider myself to be very technically inclined having programmed in VB for the last 8 years doing kernel level programming."...

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Re: My Experience with The Linux 2003-02-27
Anonymous
Wow, that was a good troll, but next time time try and tie it into the topic a little better. Like on how terrible the security of linux is when you have physical access to the machine....

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My Experience with The Linux 2003-02-27
Noddy
O please.

Don't blame your inability to set up a Linux system on the OS. Just admit that you were to cheap to get a *nix expert to help.

And another thing; VB? For 8 years?

...

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My Experience with The Linux 2003-02-27
Anonymous (1 replies)
Depends on what you wanted to do and which dist you were installing .. At the moment I would not buy this .. having on a Network utilising *nix vs win ... *nix always performs ... more downtime on win serves ...

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My Experience with The Linux - downtime? 2003-02-28
Anonymous
Downtime? I never have downtime in my company of 1000+ users. Downtime is money, and I cannot afford to be down.

Do things right the first time, you should not have any downtime. If I check my helpdesk logs, I see that the last time we rebooted our Exchange server was Feb. 11th, 2001 - PDC - Apr...

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Re: My Experience with The Linux 2003-02-27
Anonymous
Slow day today?...

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My Experience with The Linux 2003-02-27
Anonymous
Egg Troll indeed

What about HP-UX, Solaris, and other commerical Unices ... or are only systems with VB (LOL!) serious enough for you?

(I haven't been paid for anything other than computing for the last twenty-five years. I've seen 'em come and I've seen 'em go. And Basic hasn't been ready f...

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My Experience with The Linux 2003-02-27
Anonymous (1 replies)
Nice joke. Hope this wasn't a serious message...

I found a bit dissapointing your comments on GPL vs MS shared source... That's serious stuff, no jokes please.
...

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My Experience with The Linux 2003-02-27
Anonymous (1 replies)
hehe - the fact that all you dumb linux nerds are getting so defensive makes troll's point even more solid. I bet all these posts are from one guy!...

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Egg Troll Rules! Anonymous Doesn't. 2003-02-28
Anonymous (1 replies)
> the fact that all you dumb linux nerds are getting so defensive makes troll's point even more solid. I bet all these posts are from one guy! <

They are! Look they're almost all from Anonymous. What would he know?!

Egg Troll, just post the link to your VB kernel that fits on a floppy. You k...

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As if 2003-03-03
Anonymous
They may have been posted by one person, or they might not have - doesn't really matter. They all make sense.

I for one have never had trouble with linux. In the more than 3 years I'm now using it, it crashed once (and I managed to recover *without* rebooting). I've only seen kernel panics for...

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My Experience with The Linux 2003-03-05
blacklight
Dear eggtroll,

I used to do client-server programming in VB years ago and until I read your post, I had no idea that such a high-level language as VB can be used to perform the kind of low-level programming tasks that C is used for. How you would manage to compile a VB binary and make that binary...

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Linux Boot Floppy 2003-02-26
Anonymous
Yes, there is a Linux boot floppy that automates the task of changing the Administrator password for NT/2K/XP.

Just because you don't have it, don't presume it doesn't exist. It's in fact quite easily found with some netsearching.

...

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Joy! 2003-02-26
Anonymous
Sure, absolutely. I completely agree! Thought so when i first heard this story.
Besides, i've used Linux (boot) CD's often enough (when forgetting to edit fstab and lilo after deleting some win partition on a dual boot ;-). But, how else are you going fix some boot problem? The former poster mentio...

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Media Gone Mad 2003-02-26
Anonymous
Umm, yea, I have to completely agree with this article. What's sad is the plethora of reasons that MS security should get bashed over while this gets all the attention....

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Media Gone Mad 2003-02-26
Anonymous
The "physical access" argument is half irrelevant....
(and the LINUX 'boot floppy' one pathetic)

Why do OSs have password protected accesses if it's enough to be sitting next to the computer? Just for the fun of typing passwords?
Come on...
You cannot do the same, and obviously should not be a...

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"Third Party Driver" ? This is slanted in the other direction 2003-02-26
Anonymous (1 replies)
While the core point of the article is correct, there are some dead giveaways that the author is a bit too eager to go the extra mile to make Microsoft come out smelling better than it deserves on this one.

Case in point, the archtype scenario for why you'd want to boot a recovery console in this...

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"Third Party Driver" ? This is slanted in the other direction 2003-02-27
Eric Grabowski (eric@mazenet.com)
I would point out how many times I had a UNIX or Linux kernal "crash" due to bad drivers just as windows does. Granted .. its not as often .. Microsoft gives us a "kitchen sink" OS and because of that it is more likely to have compatability issues, but please dont preach about how pristine every oth...

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Paying extra for patching buggy software... 2003-02-26
Anonymous
... is exactly what BillG and his horde do (yes, I agree with you on the rest of the article). For bug and security fixes for IE and Outlook, you have to accept updated license agreements that give Microsquish extra "rights" on your machine. There was a significant outcry re Win2k SP3 license, but...

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Newsflash! Huge security hole in Linux! 2003-02-26
Anonymous (6 replies)
It's interesting to note that one can very easily boot up Linux, FreeBSD, et al, with boot floppies or CDs, get a shell, mount the file systems, and have your way with them. This has always been true. So what is the big deal?

Similarly, any non-NTFS Windows installation can be accessed by booting...

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Newsflash! Huge security hole in Linux! All true 2003-02-26
Anonymous
I agree, but the mentality of most of the MCSEs I have had the displeasure to interact with is this:

"Microsoft is C2 secure,The Government said so, Look at the press release! If there are any holes, Microsoft will notify us, We have a maintenance contract"

And when the mcse is lead kick...

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Newsflash! Huge security hole in Linux! 2003-02-27
Anonymous
I agree 100%. Microsoft can really do very little to solve this issue. People need to understand how to lock thier computers and networks down....

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Newsflash! Huge security hole in Linux! 2003-02-27
Anonymous
HERE HERE!

Finally someone says it like it is.

The entire article was troll bait to the extreme.
...

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Newsflash! Huge security hole in Linux! 2003-02-27
Anonymous
What if I don't have a C: drive? All I have is /dev/hda.......

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Newsflash! Huge security hole in Linux! 2003-02-27
Anonymous
two words-
encrypted filesystem...

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Newsflash! Huge security hole in Linux! 2003-02-27
Anonymous
THANK YOU!!!

I was waiting for someone to say that.... The bottom line is, if someone has access to your box, your security is toast.... No matter what the operating system, no matter what the hardware configuration, if they have hands on access, your security is an illusion....

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Media Gone Mad 2003-02-26
Anonymous (1 replies)
Hear, hear!

Somebody buy this guy a beer! :)...

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Media Gone Mad 2003-02-27
Anonymous
sorry, I can't until I pay off the Win2K server, Exchange & anti-virus server software :(

great article though, despite the number of assumptions that are just plain wrong...

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Media Gone Mad 2003-02-26
Anonymous
Well, maybe you should look before you spew tongue in cheek comments. Yes, there IS an NT/2000 admin password recovery diskette (or bootable CD if you prefer) that DOES boot linux, that DOES mount the drive (yes NTFS), and DOES run a script to guide you through the process. Here you go: http://home....

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You don't need a Linux boot floppy 2003-02-27
Aaron Brooks
LiLo and GRUB both by default allow you to pass the statment "single" along with kernel options. If you hit TAB at a LiLo prompt you can see the available kernels and type something like:

LiLo: vmlinuz single

and be at a runlevel 1 (single user) root prompt in a matter of seconds, no password...

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Media Gone Mad 2003-02-27
Anonymous
Well, there are other things which are security issues clearly in XP, besides the fact I preferred their beta look.

The issue isn't major, but you could force it to RC, copy a file to it, which creates a backdoor in the system when it's restored. of course- if you can do that, you can do that any...

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Media Gone Mad 2003-02-27
Anonymous
bovine feces or faeces - at least M$ spellchecker will pick that up...

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Media Gone Mad 2003-02-27
icewhit
Unfortunately, it would take much less time and hassle to just disconnect the machine and walk out the door. Wired should do an article called "Why do our machines keep getting stolen instead of people exploiting this XP "significant security flaw""...

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Media Gone Mad 2003-02-27
Anonymous (1 replies)
Thank you very much for this awesome column. Man, the last 3 years I indulged and spent a lot of money on servers and equipment that was no Microsoft OS based. I tried out Macs, and LINUX! My business is building solutions for clients on the best platform. Suprisingly it cost a LOT more money th...

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Media Gone Mad - feeding their kids? 2003-02-27
Anonymous
What kids? the people that use *nix are kids that live with mommy with too much time on their hands and no social lives.

Get a real job and learn what it is to work on a project team!...

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Media Gone Mad 2003-02-27
Roberto J Dohnert
Thank you very much for this article, I have been hearing about this " vulnerability " more times than I care to count and I tell people its nothing to worry about, its not an exploit. Yes and I do wish that people would leave Bill & Co. alone, people call this an exploit but then what does that ma...

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Defined media 2003-02-27
bri guy
Exactly! Anyone with access to the AP wire is a qualified journalist. Don't bother investigating. That would take to much time.
:P...

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the important bit - the ease of access to encypted files 2003-02-27
Anonymous (1 replies)
"If the system is a member of a workgroup and not a domain, you can just change the user's password that the file was encrypted under," Pfeil said. "Then you can log on as that user having access to the encrypted file."...

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the important bit - the ease of access to encypted files 2003-02-27
Anonymous
Check the other posts...if you set up EFS correctly, you can't do this......

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Media Gone Mad 2003-02-27
Anonymous
I fully agree ? excellent article !

There was and there will be always a security hole if you can get physical access to a PC.
...

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Media Gone Mad 2003-02-27
Cent
You took the words right out of my mouth ......

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Alert: Major Security Flaws 2003-02-27
Asmo (2 replies)
Alert: New Vulnerability Detected in OS We Don't Like
Severity: HIGH
Summary: Commonly available tools able crack into server.
Discussion:

Our crack team of Security and Expliot engineers at our east coast Propulsion Labrotories have recently discovered a serious security vulnerablity in an ...

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Alert: Major Security Flaws 2003-02-27
Anonymous
LMFAO!!!...

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Alert: Major Security Flaws 2003-02-28
Anonymous
Cisco Catalyst switches and routers are also affected by the same vulnerability. Heck Cisco even goes the length to teach you how to carry out the exploit. One of the many versions : http://www.cisco.com/en/US/products/hw/switches/ps700/produc
ts_password_recovery09186a0080135657.shtml

All you nee...

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This IS a major vulnerability 2003-02-27
obadii@hushmail.com (2 replies)
I would argue this IS a significant vulnerability. If an organization is deploying XP to the desktop, then anyone with access to Windows 2000 media could access ANY information on any desktop.

You are right, if your server OS of choice is XP, and your server facilities are adiquate, this is a ...

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This IS a major vulnerability- NOT! 2003-03-01
Anonymous
You say "For you to call this a non-vulnerability makes me question if you understand the fundamentals of security. It's nothing personal, but security comes down to what you can access, identification of someone accessing something they shouldn't be able to and auditability. This pretty much knocks...

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This IS a major vulnerability 2003-03-02
Anonymous
So, booting the unix into single user mode is a vulnerability as well?...

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Media Gone Mad - bye bye *nix 2003-02-27
Anonymous (1 replies)
Just like that Ford model-T you saw at the museum. Sure, it works fine, nice and simple, really basic - but I think I'd rather have the brand new Mercedes. You can keep your old, worn out peice of junk. ;)

*nix will soon meet the same fate as OS/2, I can see the headlines now - "Microsoft clubs ...

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Media Gone Mad - bye bye *nix 2003-03-02
Anonymous
you're a moron....

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Media Gone Mad 2003-02-28
Anonymous
Tim, thankyou for posting a well-written article.

We seem to have gotten off topic here.
If you still don&#8217;t understand what the issue is, read this. Pay attention to #2 and #3


The Ten Immutable Laws of Security

Law #1: If a bad guy can persuade you to run his program on your co...

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Media Gone Mad 2003-02-28
Anonymous
...angry mobs of protesters would pull Bill Gates from his own home like a group of crazed Colombian soccer fans and bind him to a whipping post...

Am I the only one who thinks this is a good idea?

...

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It is our fault - we don't demand solutions to fill the gaps 2003-03-01
Eitan Caspi
OK, so there is a free tool for doing this.
But? a vendor named "Winternals" has a product named "ERD Commander" that has a cost, but it has been doing just this and more for a long time.
Not only it is not CONSIDERED a vulnerability ? someone is making money out this fact for a long time?

I ha...

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Media Gone Mad 2003-03-02
Anonymous
I work as QA for a TCP/UDP server product. We recently had a certain famous security firm report multiple vulnerabilities in our product. Some of the vulns were legit, but some of them were completely non-exploitable and therefore NOT security issues. However, the company still got CVE ids for ea...

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Media Gone Mad 2003-03-03
Anonymous
Microsoft look like the bad guy every time ... Microsoft is bad guy! ;-)
...

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STOOPID PEOPLE 2003-03-03
GENIUS GUY (2 replies)
it is the fact that one OS rescue disk can activate another OS when they're supposed to be different.

Just goes to show how all the crud under the MS table is one and the same.

Same car key fits in every GM vehicle out there. Only you maroons would think so.

Not I the genius guy.


DUH! ...

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STOOPID PEOPLE 2003-03-04
Anonymous
First, you spelled stupid wrong. It doesn't take a genius to know that. Secondly, the "OS" does not "activate" the other "OS." It is called a "file system", Genius. An OS gives you access to a file system. If your OS supports the file system, like Mullen said, you get access to the files.

Th...

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STOOPID PEOPLE - uhm, yeah. 2003-03-04
Anonymous
Read the article, doofist....

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It is unfortunate... 2003-03-03
Glenn Schulz (1 replies)
Setting aside the issue of whether this is a vulnerability or not, I find Tim Mullen's points of reference to be misleading and flawed.

Most professionals involved in security models approach designs from a belt and suspenders standpoint; arguably either one can do the job but...

The comment t...

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It is unfortunate...that you don't understand 2003-03-04
Anonymous (1 replies)
Layered security? Let's see- he talks about physical security, EFS, patching, hmmm... Sounds pretty reasonable to me. And just because you don't know about physical security does not make it a dream. Do you keep your servers in the parking lot? In the coffee room? Do you allow regular uses to lo...

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It is unfortunate...that Glenn learned security from a text book. 2003-03-05
Erik (1 replies)
Glenn,

"Misleading and Flawed..."

Glenn, Glenn, Glenn please spare me your jaded view of Tim Mullen's writing. You are obviously a very "high-level" kind of guy; which is fine, but don't play word games to make your ?3rd grade security point? valid. We all agree that security must be layered....

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Reality 2003-03-06
Glenn Schulz (1 replies)
Erik,

I do agree that the media overshot the message on XP. My heartburn is with Tim Mullen's sportscaster like ranting rather than providing a well articulated counterpoint.

Physical security for a typical XP environment is not one of locked doors, biometrics, and security guards. XP is typic...

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Agreement 2003-03-06
Erik (2 replies)
Glenn,

I do agree that the media overshot the message on XP. My heartburn is with Tim Mullen's sportscaster like ranting rather than providing a well articulated counterpoint.

erik>Tim does have a unique writing style (i won't argue that), but its fun. These articles are mostly read by people...

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It has been a pleasure 2003-03-07
Glenn Schulz
Erik,

Yes, it appears we are in violent agreement! Thanks - its been a fun discussion. I appreciate your professionalism. Perhaps we will meet in the trenches.

- Glenn...

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Agreement 2003-03-07
FUNNY (2 replies)
erik>Tim does have a unique writing style (i won't argue that), but its fun. These articles are mostly read by people like ourselves that understand the issue, but appreciate the slanted rant. I find it refreshing. You may not. Such is life.
///////////////////

It's fun? FUN? Fun as in "cool" a...

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Agreement - too much caffeine today? 2003-03-07
Anonymous
Your an idiot that needs to settle down.

If you don't have "fun" in your work, then you are in the wrong business my friend. "fun" is a mental requirement for most socially-sabby people, and contrary to your opinion, it makes for a much more healthy and productive work environment.

Go be a lit...

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Agreement.... what is your problem? 2003-03-07
Anonymous
Are you honestly serious? "fun" - "Microsoft term?". I have never heard something so absolutely ridiculous and pathetic in my life - what are you smoking? Can I have some?

They were having an excellent discussion and used the word "fun" because they enjoyed the relevant dialog they were having, d...

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MICROSOFT SUCKS! 2003-03-04
[ Discussion Closed ] (1 replies)
that is all there is to it.

[ Discussion Closed ] ...

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MICROSOFT SUCKS! - your a dink. 2003-03-06
Anonymous
Yes - please close the discussion for yourself, as you have nothing useful or merely intelligent to say....

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Media Gone Mad - Strikeback 2003-03-05
Anonymous
I'm very happy to see some Windows administrators finally standing up against the open-source community's never-ending rants and raves about how insecure Windows is. I've certainly been listening to it for far too long. I see the same arguments made over and over by the open source community, and I ...

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Media Gone Mad - Linux sucks 2003-03-06
Anonymous
It sucks... there are no two ways about it. Give up.

http://www.worldtechtribune.com/worldtechtribune/template.as
p...

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what more can I do 2003-03-06
Tigger
I agree, I should wipe that evil grin off my face ... but this stuff is just 2 funny. Can't you just imagine one IT director to another over lunch.... "yeah, we banned all use of the recovery console 2 ... when is Microsoft gonna offer us SOLUTIONS." SOLUTION nr. 1 : listen to the people that know !...

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