Stop Being a Victim

Stop Being a Victim
Tim Mullen, 2004-04-27

An influential newspaper columnist blames "contemptuous techies" for allowing users to fall prey to viruses and spyware. But don't some users deserve a little contempt?

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Stop Being a Victim 2004-04-28
Clownface (2 replies)

Consider the steps users had to take to infect themselves with some of the recent netsky virii - use a password to open a zip file, run the enclosed executable - these are not trivial skills. I know plenty of people who have no idea what a zip file is, let alone have WinZip or other Zip client insta...

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Stop Being a Victim 2004-04-28
Matthew Murphy

The ironic part about the statement that "many users don't have WinZip installed" is that "Microsoft Compressed Folders" makes the job simple on Windows Me, XP, and 2003. Microsoft is steadily moving into every market it can, and the result has been that it is simply easy for the end-user to be stu...

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Stop Being a Victim 2004-04-28
Curt (1 replies)

For over a decade I have been back and forth on this particular issue.

It started out as instructing our users to not open attachments from email senders you don't know.

Then it was don't go to sites from email senders you don't know.

Then it was don't even OPEN email from senders you don't...

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Stop Being a Victim 2004-04-30
Anonymous (3 replies)

>But ask yourself this: Do we have the same
>issues with OpenSource OS's? With MAC OS?

There are no issues with shitty Opensource or MacOS _BECAUSE_ it's not worth a second of anyone time to create a virus for the 0,001% of the market, easy answer :-)...

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Stop Being a Victim 2004-05-02
Eu (1 replies)

>>But ask yourself this: Do we have the same
>>issues with OpenSource OS's? With MAC OS?

>There are no issues with shitty Opensource
>or MacOS _BECAUSE_ it's not worth a second
>of anyone time to create a virus for the 0,
>01% of the market, easy answer :-)

yeah right.
since you're so m...

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Stop Being a Victim 2004-05-07
Anonymous

There is no need to be pretentious or one-sided about this. In a way, he is correct! I have never seen an OS, be it mac, *nix and windows, that says (or guarantees) it DOESN'T have potential security holes, but simply that microsoft DOES have the market share and hence the virus's are more easily sp...

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Stop Being a Victim 2004-05-03
Anonymous

>There are no issues with shitty Opensource or >MacOS _BECAUSE_ it's not worth a second of >anyone time to create a virus for the 0,001% >of the market, easy answer :-)

Funny considering it's now around 5-7% of the market for Linux, and about the same for Mac.

It might also be because there is...

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Stop Being a Victim 2004-05-06
zaster (1 replies)

If the mac OS's were in use as much as MS operating systems, you can bet there would be just as many people writing viruses and finding exploits for macs....

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Re: Stop Being a Victim 2005-07-10
Harold

MS Windows has been brilliant for backward compatibility, but it's also one of its achilles heels, and it makes the OS quite baroque (and at times broke). We're talking third millenium technology built on top of 1990's built on top of 1980's built on top of 1970's tech. It's like a modern city bui...

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Stop Being a Victim 2004-04-28
Anonymous (1 replies)

First of all, you hit the proverbial nail on the head. I'm sure we've all struggled with the same question... "Why don't end-users care about what happens to their, or someone elses, computers?". As you pointed out, nobody needs to be a master mechanic to drive a car or chef to boil water. What y...

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Cost to be a victim 2004-04-29
Ed (1 replies)

Perhapse you captured some of the problem in mentioning cost. Not only does it cost the user nothing to become infected, but it costs them something to avoid infection. How do you justify to an end user that they need to spend the $60 for a firewall/anti-virus package? I know there are free firew...

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Re: Cost to be a victim 2005-07-10
Harold

The computer hardware's not really at issue, it's their data. What's the price of losing the first photo of your kid walking that you just downloaded from your digital camera.

Folks are also starting to wake up to the fact that the cost may be their identity. If a hacker breaks into their syste...

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Stop Being a Victim 2004-04-28
Ivan

"You don't have to be a master mechanic to drive a car, and you don't have to be a computer expert to load AV software and install a firewall."
Actually... I'm really not sure about that statement.
1. You do have to pass a driving test to drive a car. (maybe there should be driving tests for usin...

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Stop Being a Victim 2004-04-28
Anonymous

Amen Mr. Mullen. NO ONE is asking computer users to be experts...if only they'd be remotely competent it would get the job done. I deal with end users constantly, and the big frustration isn't that they don't know how to update their virus scanners (if they even have one) or how to use Windows Upd...

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Un-tech-friendly people 2004-04-28
iago (1 replies)

The only thing I worry about is people who don't understand what an executable IS when it shows up in their mailbox because they never have to know anything past shortcuts. These are the same people who don't know what a program really is besides an icon. My dad still says "installing" instead of ...

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Un-tech-friendly people 2004-04-29
AnonYmousE

Ditto...

There are many schools and educational programs out there, why should it be my job to teach/educate the ignorant masses on basic computer security and maintenance. It normally ends up that I have to do it myself in any case so I do not see the point. I already find my self, documenting e...

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Stop Being a Victim 2004-04-28
Paul (2 replies)

"In a word? Um, that's 24 words. If that statement were computer code rather than consumer criticism, it would be... wait for it... a buffer overflow. Allocate one word and stuff it with 24. No boundary checking. Oh, the irony."

Classic - I could not stop laughing......

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Stop Being a Victim 2004-05-01
Anonymous

actually its pedantic.

/. much?...

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Stop Being a Victim 2004-05-07
Anonymous

I felt this part of the article discredits the rest, as though technical people only need to make fun of the less-technical, to feel better about themselves and their job.

There are too many technical people that think they rule the computing world, when we should be serving what the customer nee...

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Stop Being a Victim 2004-04-28
Bob Beck

Users have a mentality to download any file and open them without scanning for viruses. They also love to open any email sent to their inbox regardless of who it is from. To say it is the IT department's fault that the user is ignorant is just a careless and baseless statement.

Now, if only end u...

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Stop Being a Victim 2004-04-28
It's not MY Fault

How politically incorrect of you. You should be ashamed. Expecting people to take responsibility for their actions. What kind of crazyness is that.
Don't you know that it is ALWAYS someone elses fault.
...

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Another d00zie from Mellon... 2004-04-28
Linux Sux (1 replies)

>

well...for one thing this isn't out yet so what's YOUR point of even mentioning it. Probably when it comes out it will create more new holes than it actually fixes. You may as well have touted the future Longhorn and whined abou that....

If you want to the "victims" to take a stand how abou...

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Another d00zie from Mellon... 2004-04-28
iago (2 replies)

"Yeah, lets see some educational measures from Microsoft, CAUTION: DO NOT CONNECT TO THE INTERNET UNTIL YOU HAVE APPLIED OUR PATCHES ADDRESSING OUR FLAWED PRODUCTS"

The unfortunate irony is that to get the patches you have to be online with an insecure connection. Trying do download the patch to...

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Another d00zie from Mellon... 2004-04-29
Anonymous

dear all,

to download patches onto a freshly installed machine without getting toasted, simply install ZoneAlarm off CD-ROM before connecting to the net.

Stu...

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Another d00zie from Mellon... 2004-05-01
Anonymous

Why do injured people insist on wading through swampland to get at the bandaids?

Just keep the rj45/rj11 out of the damn thing until the patches have been applied!!!

Most computers these days ship with an optical drive, and any retail or service outlet worth their monthly rent would be able to...

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Stop Being a Victim 2004-04-28
Anonymous (2 replies)

Yes, users should learn some minimal skills to operate a computer. And techies should make sure users don't get overwhelmed by technology. A great teacher knows his subject inside and out, but can simplify it to make it easy to understand for the less knowledgeable.

The unanswered question here i...

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Stop Being a Victim 2004-04-28
Anonymous

Anonymous writes:
Let the users learn to 'drive' their PCs, and let the IT experts make a safer car. Just think how the auto industry was decades ago...no airbags, no car alarms, etc. I think the IT industry is now facing similar challenges.

That is right on as far as I'm concerned. Well put!
...

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Stop Being a Victim 2004-04-28
Micheal

"The unanswered question here is, why does this type of environment exist in the first place?"

This type of environment exists because of the ease at purchasing and connecting a personal computer to the net.

Look at our history on this:

20 years ago, the average person didn't have the abil...

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Stop Being a Victim 2004-04-28
Anonymous (1 replies)

I applaud your oppinion here. Users need to learn a system before using it, as wiith every other part of life. Danger is danger, whether it be an oncoming car, oncoming bullet, or oncoming virus. I can't stand how my users can say, sometimes in the same sentence, that the security measures are to...

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Stop Being a Victim 2004-04-29
Anonymous

Completely agree, too many users are clueless fsckwits who whine when you're protecting them from themelves.

I don't consider any requests for access / features unless accompanied by a written (at least an A4 page) _very_ good reason why you need X and you can convince someone from IT to suppor...

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Stop Being a Victim 2004-04-28
Anonymous (4 replies)

Perhaps one way to educate users as to how the constant maintenance of security software is a necessary evil is to compare this activity with maintaining their cars. If you own a car you know you have to change the oil, check the brakes, belts and hoses and buy replacement parts as they wear out. Th...

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Stop Being a Victim 2004-04-28
contemptuoustechie

I've lost count of how many times I've had users and their bosses tell me that all they want to know is what they need to know in order to do their jobs. Try getting your company to make computer training mandatory, or even offer it at all. It's no wonder most users are clueless about security. Our...

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Stop Being a Victim 2004-04-28
Anonymous

A little education sure would go a long way. My mother once asked me "How do I get my dial-up to save my password like it used to?" HELLO - click the "save password" box right below where you're entering your password. After LOTS of hard work, she now has AV software, downloads updates, and insta...

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Stop Being a Victim 2004-04-28
Anonymous

While the automobile-to-computer comparison suited the spin of your argument, further examination proves that it is fallacious. There is an entire industry built around repairing automobiles that people didn't properly service. The threat of costly repairs or even of having to buy a new car was no i...

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Stop Being a Victim 2004-04-28
Anonymous (1 replies)

Unfortunately you can maintain your car, and it can still break down. You can get new tires, and still have a blowout at 70 mph. XP out of the box doesn't enable the firewall, yet with sp2 its the default to enable it. Was the policy change maybe to do with the fact that it is too hard for a user...

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Stop Being a Victim 2004-05-08
Anonymous

I think it is funny. it seems like everyone is blaming the End Users, Vendors and even us IT people. WHY ARE WE NOT BLAMING THE RIGHT PEOPLE.

We need to place ultimate blame on the people causing the problem not the victims of the problems.

I read the article Prison time for cyber stock sw...

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You need a drivers licence to drive a car 2004-04-28
Anonymous

My favorite analogy: Driving.

It is perfectly legal to drive under age and without permit on a closed track. Nor does the car need to meet standard security requirements. Do as you like, it is YOUR track, just don't blame anyone if you kill yourself.

Things become different once you hook up yo...

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The hypocrisy of some Microsoft critics 2004-04-28
Anonymous

Thanks for also pointing out that Mossberg's demand that Microsoft put the rest of the security industry out of business is at odds with both the law and his previous statements. This sort of stuff is typical of Microsoft critics....

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The truth lies somewhere in between 2004-04-28
incongruity

The simple fact of the matter is that both user and software designer are at fault. I design software and I know the pressure (external and self-generated) to add all sorts of cool new features. The problem is that unless time, money and care are spent to give each new feature and release a solid ...

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Stop Being a Victim 2004-04-28
A non-ymoose

There are technical solutions. A Knoppix CD, a little memory and no harddrive. Your ISP sends you a disk, you surf the web, read your email, maybe even print. If you want more than that, you do need to take some responsibility for yourself.

There are some extremely non-technical types out ther...

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Stop Being a Victim 2004-04-29
DocB

Sorry, most folks just want to get work done. Just finished installing a wireless network for some fairly smart folks who said when I finished, they really don't care how it works, or how well it works, just as long as it works. It's just a tool for them, and maintenance doesn't get done unless it...

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Failure of the application to provide a safe environment 2004-04-29
David Mohring (1 replies)

http://www.google.com/groups?threadm=slrn8j2cen.pns.heretic@
localhost.localdomain
QUOTE
Human nature being as it is, relying on users to follow a strict protocol when dealing with incoming email[, web pages] or other Office documents via the internetis doomed to failure. Love letter from whom? The...

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Failure of the application to provide a safe environment 2004-04-30
Anonymous

Respectfully, I disagree. Native executables are not a problem. The problem is that HTML and XML are themselves script languages (a interpreted executable) and must be allowed for execution for any browser to work. This is how the content of the web is made dynamic.

It is not the fault of the ...

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Victim !!? 2004-04-29
Mandar

I personally feel that the main problem that the end users faces is

Virus, spyware and similar such things come to the enduser from someone he knows in person or from internet sites which have all fancy things to lure the end user to enchnce the performance of the computer...
Many fall into the...

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Stop Being a Victim 2004-04-29
HiVeloCT

Exactly! The supposition that the IT industry should be able to engineer a miracle solution for all the security threats rampant on the Internet is analogous to an expectation that auto makers should engineer a vehicle that is 100% safe even if driven irresponsibly....

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I don't think people get it ... 2004-04-30
Robert Escue

Tim is right on this one, and here is why. We are supposed to be security professionals, Joe Six Pack is not, nor is he likely to become one. This is because Joe Six Pack is not interested in security, stopping spyware, malware, viruses and the like. The only thing he is concerned about is that his ...

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Be careful what you wish for... 2004-04-30
Anonymous

I found this article to be fundamentally correct, users should take the time to implement basic protective measures...however, in real life people will rarely do anything inconvenient unless they are forced to do so. Remember, thousands of people each year are still taken in by telephone scams even ...

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COMPLETE NONSENSE 2004-04-30
I Have Google Shares (2 replies)

Automobiles and its components that make the whole are engineered and manufactured to meet or exceed specific guidlines and laws.

Computer operating systems are not.

This has nothing to do with the driver of the automobile. They should expect and be guaranteed that the axles won't snap on the...

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COMPLETE NONSENSE 2004-05-04
Anonymous

Assuming the vendor has some knowledge of the kind of enivronment the product will have to work in, Microsoft does not fulfill its moral obligation to the customer.

However, given todays virus and worm-infested mess, it will be a long time before all the old problems have gone away. The moment a ...

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COMPLETE NONSENSE 2004-05-04
Anonymous

Vendor at fault? Well, yes, in a way. However, the vendor you mention, Microsoft, is not alone. I would hazard a guess that any general-purpose OS has similar problems.

The problem lies in programming methodology, in computer architecture and, as the article mentions, in the users.

There is no...

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Stop Being a Victim-college students should know better 2004-05-03
Anonymous

and we all view these stupid users as being ma and pa types, but how many college networks have been dropped at the end of summer break by students coming back with no anti-virus, or patches on the OS? ... a few, I know Idaho did.

...

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Stop Being a Victim 2004-05-03
Anonymous

Sounds to me like the author of the Wall Street Journal article is just venting after being called "stupid" himself by his company's IT personnel after he infected his own system with a virus or whatnot....

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Getting End-Users to Wake Up 2004-05-03
I'mNotThatSmart

The heart of this column is not a technical issue but a behavioral issue. The root cause of insecure systems in most cases is the way the systems are used, and the way end-users performs their daily tasks.

I think this columnist has many good points. But he also calls for the user to do xyz (le...

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Little Gain in Finger Pointing 2004-05-03
Anonymous (1 replies)

Although there is certainly some truth in the article, it is a bit simplistic to declare that if those damn users would just pay attention, the problem would be solved.

Granted, most users could probably "get it", if someone were to train them, and if they made the mental effort. This begs the q...

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Little Gain in Finger Pointing 2004-05-04
Anonymous (1 replies)

I agree and have shared several of your experiences. I too, like many techs I?m sure, have gone out of my way to help people fix their home machines. I used to think I was making a difference by taking the time to carefully explain how something happens and how to prevent it after its fixed, but tha...

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Little Gain in Finger Pointing 2004-05-05
Anonymous

I agree with both of your write-ups, but I'd actually take this a step further.

I'm almost never looking toward the average joe-blow end user as the issue at fault here. The average person wants to get their job done, but I'll reserve a little of my rant for them. Would you allow an average per...

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Stop Being a Victim - stop buying Microsoft 2004-05-04
Anonymous

Microsoft could make a lot of this unnecessary by improving the quality of their code. Instead they have chosen to play blame-the-user.

...

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User Certification 2004-05-04
gnot a gnome

Maybe it's time for businesses to require real skill from users of systems in skilled positions. To get work in many industries you most likely need a certification or license of some kind - Licensed Nurse, Air Conditioning Mechanic, MCSE.

Let's start encouraging the Management/HR folks to set s...

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Stop Being a Victim 2004-05-04
Anonymous

Get your comparisons straight.

You don't have to be a chef to cook food. Well, if you really don't know what you're doing you're going to know instantly, the food will be horrible, or burnt, or not enough cooked, or... In short, you won't eat it, so you learn.

You don't have to be a mechanic t...

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Stop Being a Victim 2004-05-04
Anonymous

There are a lot of comments here about how the car analogy doesn't apply. It actually does if you consider security updates analogous to product recalls for anything - and consider that the car industry is much further developed than the software industry - the learning curve on a lot of safety iss...

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Pfft! Wanna know why things don't get patched? 2004-05-04
Anonymous

When you have custom systems built for your company, you tend to see a lot of this:

http://www.sparkchaser.net/MSFTsux/nologo.jpg

No wonder even corporations are slow on the patching schedule.

So next time, my dear Mullen, perhaps you may want to try to not simplify an issue to 'st00pid use...

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Stop Being a Victim 2004-05-05
Anonymous

If you hire an attorney, he won't guarantee you a victory in court...

No car company will guarantee it's car will never break down, they might fix it for free, but it can break down...

No doctor will guarantee the outcome of a surgical procedure...

If you have a builder build you a house, h...

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Stop Being a Victim 2004-05-05
BrinH

Yay for some sensible words. Make people pass some basic PC exam before being alowed to buy a PC. You need one before you can drive!...

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Stop Being a Victim - Current AV is outdated 2004-05-06
Anonymous

The current way AV works today is out dated. The AV companies do not use their product to protect themselves but a superior form of AV detection. So why do Companies and the public put up is an inferior product? Reoccuring $$$$$, that is why..

Check out this site with an eye opening article and a...

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What next? 2004-05-06
Anonymous

Mullen will be espousing the virtues of Microsoft allowing spammers to run the course of Hotmail.

"...nothing wrong with it...users can simply delete the spam...people should learn that spam is harmless and learn how to use the delete button..."

Microsoft is GOOD
Users are BAD

hehehe Mull...

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Stop Being a Victim 2004-05-07
Jeroen

As a lot of other people have pointed out, this is mainly a matter of mind-set and awareness. Most of the people posting here are not average computer users but people with more skills. They might not have a problem with applying patches but a lot of users do.

I think it's not fair to blame them ...

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Stop Being a Victim 2004-05-08
blacklight

Users don't own the network any more than drivers own the road. Until and unless users are treated like adults and held accountable for any damage to the network that their actions might cause, we'll never hear the end of this kind of story.

My attitude is that behavior problems must be dealt wit...

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Half working 'solutions' 2004-05-10
Anonymous

I fully disagryee with this article.

Operating system vendors failed for years to deliver systems that are secure by default.

Instead, the industrie proposed bunches of half-working 'solutions' or 'advises':
'Use anti-virus software', 'Update your virus patterns regularly', 'Patch your syste...

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Fantastic 2004-05-10
mind-ops.com (James Carter)

Nice article. Basic, minimal knowledge of a pc should be required of a user that connects a computer to the internet.

I think it is amazing that in today's 'computer/digital/information, (add your own adjective) age' many people still have very little knowledge of how to use their computers asid...

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Stop Being a Victim 2007-08-08
Afterfreeze

I have ran my computer as a novice whitehat for 5 years now and have yet to need a virus protection program... no one else is allowed on my pc and I am constantly researching new vulnerabilities and ways to improve my own security... I occasionally download a virus scanner to ensure nothing has gott...

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