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Wide Open Source
Elias Levy, SecurityFocus 2000-04-17

Is Open Source really more secure than closed? Elias Levy says there's a little security in obscurity.

Comments Mode:
Netscape developers are weenies! 2000-04-17
Anonymous (2 replies)
Netscape developers are weenies! 2000-04-17
Anonymous (1 replies)
haha... 2000-04-18
Anonymous
Ever hear of SourceSafe? 2000-04-17
Anonymous (3 replies)
MS vs. Linux 2000-04-17
Anonymous (1 replies)
Like most MS products 2000-04-17
Anonymous
MS has SourceSafe (hehe) 2000-04-17
Anonymous
SourceSafe Rocks 2000-04-17
Anonymous
Please emphasize your conclusion 2000-04-17
Anonymous
Bug *fixes*...? 2000-04-17
Anonymous (2 replies)
Re: bug fixes 2000-04-17
David Terrell <dbt (at) meat (dot) net [email concealed]> (2 replies)
What? 2000-04-17
Anonymous
a bit reactionary, eh? 2000-04-18
Anonymous (1 replies)
potentialities and realities 2000-04-18
David Terrell <dbt (at) meat (dot) net [email concealed]>
Latest MS bug fixed same day 2000-04-18
Anonymous (1 replies)
Good response, MS 2000-04-19
Anonymous
Wide Open Source 2000-04-17
Anonymous
Open Source Security 2000-04-17
Anonymous
You forgot one thing: 2000-04-17
Anonymous
But you ignore the obvious 2000-04-17
Anonymous
Auditing of compiled code not much harder ... 2000-04-17
Anonymous (1 replies)
Forget about strcpy() 2000-04-17
Anonymous
good analysis... 2000-04-17
Anonymous
Examine the record... 2000-04-17
Anonymous (1 replies)
Comparing Apache and IIS is wrong 2000-04-17
Anonymous (2 replies)
crap load along with Apache. 2000-04-17
Anonymous
Path of the weak 2000-04-17
Anonymous
You've made several critical mistakes in your comment. 2000-04-17
Bruce Perens <bruce (at) perens (dot) com [email concealed]> (3 replies)
Sorry about the bad formatting. 2000-04-17
Bruce Perens <bruce (at) perens (dot) com [email concealed]>
Re: Bruce Parens' Defense of Open Source 2000-04-17
David Terrell <dbt (at) meat (dot) net [email concealed]> (2 replies)
How to respond to past reports of vulnerability 2000-04-17
Bruce Perens <bruce (at) perens (dot) com [email concealed]> (1 replies)
Re: How to respond to past reports of vulnerability 2000-04-18
David Terrell <dbt (at) meat (dot) net [email concealed]> (1 replies)
I don't think you get what he's talking about, Dave... 2000-04-19
Barry Fitzgerald <reaperx1 (at) netscape (dot) net [email concealed]> (1 replies)
Indeed there are a lot of bugs 2000-04-18
Anonymous
But if you think Microsoft's Closed Source "Windows" operating system to be bug free, then i have but only to laugh at you in the face. Windows 98 may well contain millions of bugs (for its stability), and perhaps thousands of security exploits. In all probability, that's TRUE. After all, Microsoft is the only company to review the source code, EVER, and they produce a new version of the beast about every 365 days. How can you really test all that? Windows 2000 shipped with some 60,000 known (forgive me for forgetting the number, perhaps was as "low" as 35,000) bugs! That's a lot of bugs! Do you think you're ever going to see fixes for all of them? I'll grant that I happen to be one of those users who insist on compiling my own applications, for reasons of knowing where the binaries are going, and getting the added benefit of not waiting around for a precompiled binary, or better yet, installing an inferior version of this program. But i'm not stupid, and I don't just download and compile every program i come across. The ones I do compile, I'm not even using all the time. For example, I compiled Xmms (X MultiMedia System, from http://www.xmms.org) but it's not playing music right now. I realize that an efficient virus or trojan only needs to be inserted ONCE before it can do bad things. But since I don't substitute the root user for another one, and my binaries are owned by me, they have to run with root priveledges to do any real damage.

Besides, people have been exploiting Windows security holes for almost as long as Windows has been around. Oftentimes, you don't hear about it until it's been patched (usually at least a few days). In the case of the Frontpage backdoor, I checked microsoft.com, and what they said was that the back door does not exist. However, in examining the source code (on that same day!) they found and patched another "unrelated" security hole. At the bottom was a disclaimer saying that there was no guarantee to the report's accuracy. That is something i found amusing indeed- can they really scan through all that source code in a single day, find not only that the first report was not true, but also find and offer a patch for a hole that they found in this same day that was missed in earlier reviews and tests!? You can't tell me that FrontPage Server is that simple!

If you think that security through obscurity is good, then rather than build a better vault, let's just have banks hide your money behind the shrubbery at selected locations. You can't see it, therefore you can't find or exploit it, correct?

Anyone nuts enough to try to exploit Apache knows that at best his efforts will be patched again within a few days. And a detailed report of the problem will be made, usually by Apache. Does Microsoft provide such detailed reports about their security holes? Before you answer this, recall that long capitalized disclaimer of warranties at the bottom of their page for FPS security hole...

[ reply ]

Link to this comment: http://www.securityfocus.com/comments/articles/19/1448#1448
Thanks for the additional info but... 2000-04-17
Anonymous (1 replies)
Trust-worthyness and ability to spot bugs 2000-04-17
Bruce Perens <bruce (at) perens (dot) com [email concealed]>
Skill is always at a premium 2000-04-17
Christopher Petrilli <petrilli (at) amber (dot) org [email concealed]> (1 replies)
Rigorous methodology 2000-04-17
Anonymous
Blackhat? 2000-04-17
batz <batsy (at) vapour (dot) net [email concealed]> (1 replies)
semantics 2000-04-17
Ryan Russell <ryan (at) securityfocus (dot) com [email concealed]>
Some good points... 2000-04-17
Anonymous
Open source as a democracy 2000-04-17
Anonymous (1 replies)
Politics are irrelevant 2000-04-17
Anonymous
This isn't OSS vs. CSS 2000-04-17
Anonymous
bugs? yeah. fixes? right away 2000-04-17
Anonymous
Apples and Oranges 2000-04-17
Anonymous (2 replies)
re: Apples and Oranges 2000-04-17
Anonymous
NSA/Linux 2000-04-20
Anonymous
Blackhat, whitehat, whatever. 2000-04-17
Anonymous
Who found the sendmail bug? 2000-04-17
Brett <disfunct (at) radiusnet (dot) net [email concealed]> (1 replies)
Morris didn't find the Sendmail bug 2000-04-20
Rick Smith <rick_smith (at) securecomputing (dot) com [email concealed]>
to expand on what i said earlier. 2000-04-17
Brett <disfunct (at) radiusnet (dot) net [email concealed]>
Attitudes 2000-04-17
Anonymous
Rates of evolution 2000-04-17
Anonymous
just a few little things... 2000-04-17
Anonymous
a quick Summary and rant 2000-04-17
Anonymous
OSS vs closed 2000-04-17
Anonymous
Banks, The NSA, and US companies. 2000-04-18
Anonymous
Open source? Use real examples! 2000-04-18
Anonymous
Come on 2000-04-18
Anonymous
Correct the facts and the conclusions stand strong 2000-04-21
Rick Smith <rick_smith (at) securecomputing (dot) com [email concealed]>
Original Bugtraq mailing list description? 2000-04-21
Robert Quinn <rquinn (at) pobox (dot) com [email concealed]>







 

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