BugTraq
Re: Buffer overflow prevention Aug 14 2003 05:26PM
Mariusz Woloszyn (emsi ipartners pl) (6 replies)
Re: Buffer overflow prevention Aug 14 2003 11:27PM
Shaun Clowes (shaun securereality com au) (1 replies)
Re: Buffer overflow prevention Aug 15 2003 06:48PM
Crispin Cowan (crispin immunix com) (1 replies)
Re: Buffer overflow prevention Aug 17 2003 11:09PM
Shaun Clowes (shaun securereality com au) (1 replies)
Re: Buffer overflow prevention Aug 17 2003 10:42PM
Crispin Cowan (crispin immunix com) (2 replies)
Heterogeneity as a form of obscurity, and its usefulness Aug 21 2003 02:00AM
Bob Rogers (rogers-bt2 rgrjr dyndns org) (1 replies)
From: Crispin Cowan <crispin (at) immunix (dot) com [email concealed]>
Date: Sun, 17 Aug 2003 15:42:07 -0700

Shaun Clowes wrote:

>I think it's generally accepted that homogenity breeds insecurity, in
>which case it makes sense to try to be as different from everyone else
>as possible even if that doesn't make it impossible for someone to break
>you.
>
That is a commonly held view, but I would not say it is widely accepted.
I certainly don't accept it.

Heterogeneity increases survivability of the *species*, but does little
to protect the individual . . .

I don't think that stands up, at least not for digital species. I can
run Apache on Linux/x86, for which tons of shellcode is available, or I
can run the same version of Apache on Linux/sparc, for which much less
is available, and exists within a smaller and more specialized
community. For a member of a biological species, this would be
tantamount to switching to an entirely different biochemistry at will,
in order to become indigestible to the majority of predators (and making
the Darwinian metaphor much harder to digest in the process).

From this perspective, it is clear that choosing the "biochemistry"
of Sparcs would protect me as an individual. At the very least, I can
expect to have more time to patch my Sparc when a new vulnerability
comes to light.

. . . At most, you could say that running the most common system
makes you somewhat more vulnerable to attack, and you should take
that into consideration when planning your security.

Yes; and it would be interesting (though probably difficult) to quantify
that. Exploits are often cobbled together from several sources, so the
size of an "exploit community" has a direct bearing on how quickly an
exploit becomes available after a member of that community learns of an
exploitable flaw. Perhaps the dependence of time to exploit on
community size is even quadratic? If so, then heterogeneity benefits
the whole ecological niche, by fragmenting exploit communities and
therefore making them less efficient.

So heterogeneity is really just security by obscurity, dressed up to
sound pretty . . .

Seems to me that obscurity is the *only* defence against exploits for
unpublished/unpatched vulnerabilities that are spreading in the cracker
community; if you can avoid being a target, by whatever means, then you
are ahead of the game.

Anyway, thank you for posting, and making me think.

-- Bob Rogers
http://rgrjr.dyndns.org/

P.S. to moderator: I am hoping that this has diverged sufficiently from
the original "Buffer overflow prevention" thread to be worth approving . . .

[ reply ]
Re: Heterogeneity as a form of obscurity, and its usefulness Aug 22 2003 03:56AM
Crispin Cowan (crispin immunix com) (1 replies)
Re: Heterogeneity as a form of obscurity, and its usefulness Aug 22 2003 06:21PM
Nicholas Weaver (nweaver CS berkeley edu)
Re: Buffer overflow prevention Aug 18 2003 06:07PM
Mark Handley (M Handley cs ucl ac uk) (1 replies)
Re: Buffer overflow prevention Aug 18 2003 08:11PM
Crispin Cowan (crispin immunix com)
Re: Buffer overflow prevention Aug 14 2003 07:37PM
Theo de Raadt (deraadt cvs openbsd org) (3 replies)
Re: Buffer overflow prevention Aug 16 2003 01:14PM
sauron (unixlabs noos fr)
Re: Buffer overflow prevention Aug 14 2003 09:14PM
Gerhard Strangar (gerhard brue net) (1 replies)
Re: Buffer overflow prevention Aug 14 2003 09:43PM
Theo de Raadt (deraadt cvs openbsd org) (1 replies)
Re: Buffer overflow prevention Aug 14 2003 10:19PM
Gerhard Strangar (gerhard brue net)
Re: Buffer overflow prevention Aug 14 2003 08:09PM
Matt D. Harris (vesper depraved org)
Re: Buffer overflow prevention Aug 14 2003 07:17PM
Timo Sirainen (tss iki fi) (1 replies)
Re: Buffer overflow prevention Aug 14 2003 08:15PM
Jedi/Sector One (j pureftpd org) (1 replies)
Re: Buffer overflow prevention Aug 15 2003 09:54AM
Peter Busser (peter trusteddebian org)
Re: Buffer overflow prevention Aug 14 2003 06:47PM
Jedi/Sector One (j pureftpd org) (2 replies)
Re: Buffer overflow prevention Aug 15 2003 09:41AM
Peter Busser (peter trusteddebian org) (2 replies)
Re: Buffer overflow prevention Aug 16 2003 01:36AM
Mark Tinberg (mtinberg securepipe com) (2 replies)
Re: Buffer overflow prevention Aug 18 2003 08:43PM
Crispin Cowan (crispin immunix com)
Re: Buffer overflow prevention Aug 18 2003 08:41PM
Peter Busser (peter trusteddebian org)
Re: Buffer overflow prevention Aug 15 2003 05:55PM
stealth (stealth segfault net)
Re: Buffer overflow prevention Aug 14 2003 08:24PM
Miod Vallat (miod online fr)
Re: Buffer overflow prevention Aug 14 2003 06:27PM
Thomas Sjögren (thomas northernsecurity net)
Re: [Full-Disclosure] Re: Buffer overflow prevention Aug 14 2003 04:51PM
KF (dotslash snosoft com)


 

Privacy Statement
Copyright 2010, SecurityFocus