BugTraq
Is predictable spam filtering a vulnerability? Jun 16 2004 11:26AM
R Armiento (rar_bt armiento se) (7 replies)
Re: Is predictable spam filtering a vulnerability? Jun 17 2004 06:55PM
Gadi Evron (ge linuxbox org)
Re: Is predictable spam filtering a vulnerability? Jun 17 2004 05:27PM
Joel Eriksson (je-secfocus bitnux com) (3 replies)
Re: Is predictable spam filtering a vulnerability? Jun 18 2004 08:57PM
Jason Coombs (jasonc science org)
Re: Is predictable spam filtering a vulnerability? Jun 18 2004 06:52PM
PSE-L mail professional org (Sean Straw / PSE)
Re: Is predictable spam filtering a vulnerability? Jun 18 2004 06:51PM
Bill Burge (bill burge com)
Re: Is predictable spam filtering a vulnerability? Jun 17 2004 05:04PM
krispykringle gentoo org
RE: Is predictable spam filtering a vulnerability? Jun 17 2004 02:18PM
Aaron Cake (aaron vltpm com) (1 replies)
Re: Is predictable spam filtering a vulnerability? Jun 21 2004 01:23PM
Chris Brown (chris wavetex com)
Re: Is predictable spam filtering a vulnerability? Jun 17 2004 11:28AM
David F. Skoll (dfs roaringpenguin com) (4 replies)
Re: Is predictable spam filtering a vulnerability? (silently dropping messages) Jun 22 2004 02:20PM
Martin Maèok (martin macok underground cz) (2 replies)
On Thu, Jun 17, 2004 at 07:28:45AM -0400, David F. Skoll wrote:

> A spam filter MUST respond with a 500 SMTP failure code if it
> rejects a message.

What is your opinion based on?
Let me guess (correct me if I'm wrong, please).

I'm assuming you mean RFC 2821 (SMTP) -- by issuing "250 OK" to
a message, SMTP server is accepting responsibility for delivering or
relaying the message. In this meaning, it should not silently discard
the message. (The question could be, is delivering to a special folder
-- be it /dev/null or ~/mail/junk -- considered dropping or not ? ...)

On the other hand (RFC 2821): "a relay SMTP SHOULD assume that the
message content it has received is valid and, assuming that the
envelope permits doing so, relay it without inspecting that content."

SMTP filter (i.e. spam or AV filter) is not SMTP server (or relay) but
it is SMTP (application level) firewall (RFC 3234 - Middleboxes:
Taxonomy and Issues). In this mean, it can implement any "safe" subset
of SMTP and is allowed to break RFC 2821 for valid reasons (RFC 2979
- Firewall Requirements).

For me, not generating bounce message to spam/viral message is
a reason valid enough to "break" RFC 2821. Not doing so, we all end up
filtering delivery failures of messages that we have not really sent
(as I already have to do today :-/ ).

IHMO 1: If your filter decides the message is not worth a delivery
it's not worth a bounce too.

IMHO 2: If your filter does not do the job of filtering messages well
and bounces back, it is just distributing his work to others
and deserves to be repaired/changed or blacklisted (firewalled
out by others).

IMHO 3: If user Joe gets 10 delivery failures of messages that he has
not sent and one delivery failure of message that he has
actually sent, it is worse than if he gets nothing.

Martin Maèok
IT Security Consultant

[ reply ]
Re: Is predictable spam filtering a vulnerability? (silently dropping messages) Jun 23 2004 12:53AM
David F. Skoll (dfs roaringpenguin com) (2 replies)
Re: Is predictable spam filtering a vulnerability? (silently dropping messages) Jun 23 2004 10:46PM
der Mouse (mouse Rodents Montreal QC CA)
Re: Is predictable spam filtering a vulnerability? (silently dropping messages) Jun 23 2004 09:48PM
PSE-L mail professional org (Sean Straw / PSE) (2 replies)
Re: Is predictable spam filtering a vulnerability? (silently dropping messages) Jun 25 2004 07:49PM
der Mouse (mouse Rodents Montreal QC CA)
Re: Is predictable spam filtering a vulnerability? (silently dropping messages) Jun 25 2004 05:35PM
Seth Breidbart (sethb panix com)
Re: Is predictable spam filtering a vulnerability? Jun 20 2004 01:52PM
Luca Berra (bluca comedia it) (3 replies)
Re: Is predictable spam filtering a vulnerability? Jun 24 2004 08:32PM
Michael A. Dickerson (mikey singingtree com)
Re: Is predictable spam filtering a vulnerability? Jun 24 2004 07:19AM
Valdis Kletnieks vt edu
Re: Is predictable spam filtering a vulnerability? Jun 23 2004 05:07PM
PSE-L mail professional org (Sean Straw / PSE) (2 replies)
Re: Is predictable spam filtering a vulnerability? Jun 24 2004 07:42PM
The Fungi (fungi yuggoth org)
Re: Is predictable spam filtering a vulnerability? Jun 24 2004 05:44PM
John Fitzgibbon (bugtraq jfitz com) (1 replies)
Re: Is predictable spam filtering a vulnerability? Jun 25 2004 05:08AM
PSE-L mail professional org (Sean Straw / PSE)
Re: Is predictable spam filtering a vulnerability? Jun 19 2004 02:56PM
Kyle Wheeler (kyle-bugtraq memoryhole net)
Re: Is predictable spam filtering a vulnerability? Jun 19 2004 12:49AM
Jon Fiedler (jmf9 cwru edu) (1 replies)
Re: Is predictable spam filtering a vulnerability? Jun 19 2004 01:29AM
David F. Skoll (dfs roaringpenguin com)
RE: Is predictable spam filtering a vulnerability? Jun 17 2004 08:26AM
Hamlesh Motah (admin hamlesh com)
Re: Is predictable spam filtering a vulnerability? Jun 17 2004 08:21AM
Ilya Sher (ilya79 actcom net il)


 

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